By Carlos Miller
The audio exchange in the above video was apparently recorded at the U.S./Canada border after a Canadian displayed contempt-of-cop towards the American law enforcement officer asking questions.
The officer began asking detailed questions as to what the man and his wife were going to do in the United States, including what stores they plan on shopping in.
The Canadian gave a little attitude about this question, which resulted in the officer ordering the both of them out of the car.
It goes on for almost ten minutes where an officer tells him “we don’t need any grounds” to harass him because this is the United States.
The guy is apparently placed inside a cell and told he was going to be charged with obstruction of justice.
An officer also tells him he could be charged with threatening and assaulting an officer.
The “threat” was when he asked an officer, “what are you going to do, shoot me?”
And the “assault” was when he pulled his arm away when one of the officers grabbed him.
It is not clear who recorded the audio. For all we know, it was leaked from the actual feds because at one point, they confirmed to him that he was being recorded.
And I would imagine if it would have been him, they would have confiscated the audio and thrown him in prison for the rest of his life or something.
But maybe they just released him after scaring the hell out of him.
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110 responses so far ↓
1 Brian Schneider // May 25, 2010 at 5:48 PM
Man it’s getting dangerous for us to cross that border. You know we’re all terrorrists & drug dealers up here eh?
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/738143–u-s-border-guards-arrest-author-peter-watts
2 Chris // May 25, 2010 at 5:50 PM
Tall trees, short ropes
3 Happy Tinfoil Cat // May 25, 2010 at 5:51 PM
You don’t even have to be entering the country, I got harassed just returning to California. There is a lane for Californians returning from Reno but I took the other lane because I was returning from SLC. That pissed off the drunken border guard. He repeatedly tried to provoke a fight as he searched my car. The other border guards were telling him not to, all the while ready to take us down if I took the bait. A teensy bit of authority, a badge, a gun, alcohol and a underdeveloped psyche always ends in problems like these. Your blog is full of examples.
4 Borbakov Jones // May 25, 2010 at 5:56 PM
Whotta bunch of gestapo shit.
5 Langue D'Oc // May 25, 2010 at 6:03 PM
American immigration personel at airports has impoved over the last decade in my experience – they are more courteous and friendly. But people on the land crossings are still back in the last millenium. This story does not surprise me in the least. The guy who looked at my passport the last time I drove from Canada to the USA (BC->WA) was an arrogant and harmless cunt and this has been the case every time I have used that crossing (3 times).
6 Langue D'Oc // May 25, 2010 at 6:05 PM
Arrogant and charmless, that is.
e.g. Instead of asking me for my immigration form he slapped his hand on the table and then did the ‘gimme’ jesture. What a wanker!
7 adam // May 25, 2010 at 6:37 PM
Is this even real?? This recording could have been made anywhere. The guy who posted it doesn’t even know where it came from. However, I do like his rant in the description section.
8 Fred Sands // May 25, 2010 at 7:11 PM
Looking at his other youtube posts, he’s also a 9/11 truther. So he’s obviously not insane or anything….
9 John Howard // May 25, 2010 at 7:29 PM
The TSA is going to start adding people to a database of names of anyone who makes an airport screener ‘feel threatened’ – which could simply mean you are having a bad day and make a snippy remark to the screener.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-05-24-TSA-threatening-fliers-watch-list_N.htm
So now simply not being a happy person, perhaps because you’ve slept in the terminal for the past 12 hours because your flight was canceled or maybe you’re traveling to a funeral, is reason enough to be tracked by the gubmit.
Ain’t that lovely?
10 Akael // May 25, 2010 at 8:30 PM
I read about this story a couple weeks ago on a major news site, but cant remember which one. At the time they did not have the audio, but talked about it. I understand this audio was recorded by the guy because he had been given a hard time before.
11 Shawn // May 25, 2010 at 8:39 PM
I live in Niagara Falls, NY, which is where this couple was going, so I’m in a good position to weigh in on this incident. Here’s my assessment:
1. The first customs agent was a bit out of line, but the Canadian guy was unnecessarily snarky.
2. The second customs guy was polite and to the point until the latter part of the recording (I’ll get to that in a moment), but the Canadian dude was still snarky and arrogant, even more so with him.
3. Customs got out of hand when they thought that the guy had threatened them, which he did not, as was proven by the recording.
To sum this up, both US Customs and the Canadian guy were in the wrong, but the Canadian couple probably would have been on their way in 15 minutes or less if the guy hadn’t been a dick.
Having lived in a border city my entire life, and having crossed back and forth at least a couple hundred times, I can tell you that even if you don’t mouth off to Customs, they have little room for humor or deviations in answers. It’s just part of their job. It doesn’t matter if you’ve had a bad day. You can’t expect to get away without being asked to go to the Customs station for a few questions if you’re giving the officers an attitude. That’s a no-brainer for anyone who’s crossed the border at least a few times.
With all of that said, I’ve never had trouble with US Customs. Whenever I’ve had trouble, it’s always been with Canadian Customs, whose officers, and least in the Niagara Region, seem to have an inferiority complex.
12 Shawn // May 25, 2010 at 8:43 PM
and least = at least
13 Happy Tinfoil Cat // May 25, 2010 at 9:00 PM
make that “For those returning from Tahoe”
14 Fred Sands // May 25, 2010 at 9:06 PM
This.
And a follow-on comment: The questions the first agent was asking are what’s known as a “Pseudo-Random Personal Interview.” It’s one of the most effect tools for quickly assessing a potential threat. You ask increasing detailed personal questions that are simply impossible to prepare for ahead of time. Any hesitation equals a ‘hit’, and you get additional attention.
This technique should be familiar to anyone that’s ever traveled Israeli Air Lines. Asked why their security is so much more effective than ours, they reply, “Because in the US you look for the bombs. In Israel, we look for the bombers.”
Mr. Snarky needs to learn when to STFU.
Finally, on a personal note, I was once crossing the border with my father when the agent asked him where he was born. He quickly gave the name of the town he was currently living in, then corrected himself. Needless to say, we all got interviewed. But since we knew when to STFU, we were on our way 10 minutes later.
15 Mike Gogulski // May 25, 2010 at 9:11 PM
Nice way to push blame onto the victim there, chief. As if anyone who should dare laugh at or react to the asinine security theater going on here (“Which store?” “Which STORE? I DON’T KNOW!”) really ought to walk away having learned some kind of “lesson” other than “shut your damned mouth, roll over and take what’s Federally coming to you”. *spit*
Mike Gogulski´s last blog ..Slovakia: Gay pride and prejudice
16 Freddy Hill // May 25, 2010 at 10:16 PM
Carlos, first of all, immigration and border control is nothing at all like policing inside America. Being admitted to this country is a privilege, not a right. Even if you are a US citizen, most constitutional rights (such as freedom from unreasonable search and seizure) are considerably weakened if they are present at all. For example, with all due respect to the name of your excellent site, photography and other recording is probably illegal before you are admitted into the country.
Secondly, the second guard went off the tracks when he tried to explain himself, to discuss what he was doing. He tried to sound reasonable and put forward justifications for his questions when in reality he had very little latitude of action. If he had simply and clearly stated what was going to happen, the visiting idiot would have understood his situation much earlier. The guard should have stated something like: “I will now ask you a few questions. Depending on your answers, I will take one of three courses of action: admit you into the country, send you back to Canada, or retain you on suspicion of terrorism, drug running, smuggling or another crime. I may also put you on a watch list for future reference. So please take your time before answering.”
BTW, I have seen people turned back on the US-Canada border. When the guards on the other side see a car come back on the U-turn lane they are ready to ask their own exhaustive set of questions. You are in no-man’s land when you are between the two border posts.
17 Mike S // May 25, 2010 at 10:35 PM
Exactly, Freddy Hill.
You hit the nail on the head.
Just as it’s illegal to lie to a federal officer, it’s a whole different game when you enter into this country, especially as a foreigner with no legal right to be admitted.
I have been to about 65 countries and travel 275-300 days per year. I have never had a bad experience with US Customs, though I literally go through the extra page passports every 3-6 years. I’ve been treated less than friendly and toughly at times, but never unprofessionally. I cannot say the same in about every other country I’ve traveled to.
Mike S
18 Clark // May 25, 2010 at 11:16 PM
And this is why more people need the Eye-Fi like technology but perhaps instead of WiFi, a cellular system linked to a more in-depth account such that any recordings are automatically posted to a user’s website on maybe an hourly or something basis (with all recordings being stored at all times, just broken down such that you don’t have to scroll through hours and hours of nothing to get the good stuff.) If I was a tad richer, and more skilled, I’d build one ASAP. If you’re damned, then you might as well go all in and maybe embarrass the government while you’re at it.
19 Freddy Hill // May 26, 2010 at 12:41 AM
I also travel quite a lot, but not as much as you. I agree with you that I have never had an unprofessional run-in with US Customs.
20 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 1:16 AM
Shawn wrote: “….the Canadian couple probably would have been on their way in 15 minutes or less if the guy hadn’t been a dick.”
In a free society you have the right to be a dick. The point is here, there’s the LAW and then there’s egos. When the guy with the gun, badge and uniform gets his ego massaged a bit then he has the right to make people’s lives miserable. You or I cannot do that. For the unitiated, that’s called a crock of shit.
21 Rance // May 26, 2010 at 1:41 AM
While I think some of the first customs officer’s questions were absolutely ridiculous, and the Canadian man was a little snarky, I don’t see any reason for it to have gotten to the point where the couple was arrested. That blame, I place on the border officials.
Was there a need for a 2nd interview? Maybe, but there were obviously officers there that were being total asshats as well. It is only natural for the couple to feel flabbergasted/ frustrated/ violated/angry, when they are being patronized and treated like criminals. The tape clearly proves that there weren’t any threats made against the border officers. The border patrol supervisor should pull out the lawbook and read the definition of assault again as well.
Assault – a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact.
Since this is an audio only recording, there is no way to determine if the man raised a fist to the officer, though I highly doubt it.
Pulling away from an officer is NOT assault. Resisting arrest, yes, though no violent or threatening actions were made that we know of. The officer made that clear when he said “You pulled your arm away from the officer. That’s assault”. Well I hate to break it to you Mr. Fife, but no it isn’t. Not according to Merriam Webster anyway.
Rance´s last blog ..BinaryGravy: RT @marklevinshow: Obama has authority to lead the oil spill recovery but he won’t b/c he doesn’t know what to do… http://bit.ly/b7ayfz
22 Bo Snerdly // May 26, 2010 at 2:35 AM
.. all too typical behavior by US border goons. As mentioned, most of the ‘rights’ a person might expect don’t apply when at a border crossing.
They delight in trying to trip you up with weird questions then compare stories with each other when on break.
They can dismantle your vehicle and leave you to reassemble/move it at your own expense. They have another trick where they make you park your car in a enclosed inspection shed and you have to sit in the office area where you can’t see what they’re doing to/with your car. It’s not that hard for agent A to drop a couple marijuana seeds under the front seat, then encourage agent B to look carefully under that seat. They now have an excuse to seize your car. Agent B can then testify ‘truthfully’ that he did indeed find contraband that allowed seizure of the car.
23 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 7:56 AM
I take it through this response that you don’t leave the US that often.
24 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 8:01 AM
I can tell you right now that this scenario is a fantasy. Maybe it might’ve happened down at the southern border, but not up here. Also, as I said before, Canadian Customs is worse.
25 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 8:03 AM
Not really. The guy just needs to learn to answer only what’s asked, and without nearly as much attitude as was on display in that recording.
26 NeuroManson // May 26, 2010 at 12:36 PM
Pity there isn’t a clip of it on YouTube, Jello Biafra did a great performance as a US border agent harassing the couple transporting their dead buddy’s body to New Orleans from Canada, in Highway 61.
27 Dan // May 26, 2010 at 12:56 PM
I disagree with the person who said, “in a free society you have the right to be a dick.”
Yes – you can be a dick to your friends, your boss, your wife, whoever. You might lose your friends, job and wife if that’s how you act, but it is your right.
However, when dealing with law enforcement, you don’t have that right. Their job is to (in this case) protect our borders, and it’s a very important job, as we’ve seen with recent terrorist threats. They don’t have time or energy to be nice to people who decide they have the right to be “dicks,” and I’m fully in favor of someone who mouths off to them getting hauled off to the cooler for an hour or two.
28 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 1:00 PM
That’s not the point.
29 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 1:09 PM
Attitude SCHMATTITUDE! Why don’t you go find yourself a police officer and ask him if he’d be kind enough to drop his pants so you can smooch his backside?!! This obsequious groveling at the feet of authority makes me want to PUKE!! Why are the cops the only ones (besides judges) who are ENTITLED to social niceties? Damn, that kind of talk makes my skin crawl.
30 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 1:10 PM
See my post above.
31 Dan // May 26, 2010 at 1:29 PM
Rusty,
Point taken. However, I’m with those who say people should just learn how to STFU in such situations. It would make life easier for everyone.
32 Matt // May 26, 2010 at 1:35 PM
Shawn wrote: “Also, as I said before, Canadian Customs is worse.”
I’ve crossed the border in Detroit at least a hundred times and my experience has been the opposite.
33 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 2:53 PM
I took issue with that statement, as well.
34 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 2:59 PM
Hey look, I don’t have a problem being polite to an officer, I’m not out to make anybody’s job difficult. What really sets my blood to boiling is the attitude, on the part of SOME officers that I’m the ant and they are the boot. A minority of them seem to want to establish, with the first words out of their mouths, that my roll is to be an obsequious turd and if I don’t just roll over and show my belly right away then its time to slap on the cuffs (tightly). It’s the “I’m the alpha male and you’d better understand that” BS that makes me wake up in the middle of the night grinding my teeth.
35 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 3:03 PM
Rusty, I don’t think that you get it. These guys need to be professional, but they don’t have any duty to be nice. The situation could have been handled better by both sides, but it deteriorated to such a bad extent because the Canadian guy chose to be a jerk, though I do think that the Customs agents at the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge need to get their hearing checked.
36 Jon Quimbly // May 26, 2010 at 3:03 PM
Wait… a state “border guard?” You submitted to a *search of your car* when crossing a *state* border? No probable cause?
I thought the Constitution permitted free-flow over *state* borders… am I missing something here?
37 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM
I’ve never crossed in that area, so I can’t speak to the attitude of either US or Canadian Customs on that part of the border.
38 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 3:11 PM
By the way, here’s a link that you may want to read. I’d like to note that I don’t agree with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
39 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 3:13 PM
No Shawn, YOU are the one that does not “get it”. We are not legally required to be “nice” and the police have no entitlement to be treated with kid gloves. We all deal with abrasive people from time to time and we just shrug it off UNLESS we have a gun, a badge and a uniform plus the power to fuck up people’s lives. Then somebody gets the crap beat out of him or gets hauled off to the slammer for “contempt of cop”.
40 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 3:14 PM
I’d like to know what he’s talking about, as well.
41 Shawn // May 26, 2010 at 3:16 PM
Rusty, it would behoove you to read through the link that I just posted, and I’m going to say again that I don’t agree with it.
42 Jason K // May 26, 2010 at 3:21 PM
I’m pretty sure he’s referring to the inspection booths for non-native vegetables that all traffic into California goes through when entering the state (there’s actually only a few roads entering the state due to the geography (deserts, mountains, forests) along the state borders. Invasive plants/veggies are not allowed in.
43 Rob Molecule // May 26, 2010 at 3:36 PM
I’m all for opening borders and relaxing restrictions. But growing up by the Niagara Falls border as well, I know full damn well trying to assert your rights at a border crossing will get you nowhere. I have been busted for stupid stuff at the border and guess what, they let it slide because I didn’t have an attitude. That said, I don’t like to cross the border because I don’t enjoy the way it works, the personal questions and the threat of having my car torn apart.But that’s why I would never act like that guy did if I did cross. Also, you have to realize that these border guards are under constant supervision. They’re not going to be able to just let you slide by if you caused a scene. You’re going to be pulled over and subject to even more invasive interrogation. Why make things worse for yourself?
44 duane kerzic // May 26, 2010 at 3:48 PM
These guys are such jerks. I’ve been through this a bunch of times. Sometimes they are nice, sometimes they are total jerks like these two. Where are you going? How do you kow where you’re going and it’s none of their business anyway.
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45 Nicholas // May 26, 2010 at 3:53 PM
Someone explain something to me. If, as claimed, we would be surprised to know that they actually catch about 3 terrorists a day, why are we not hearing about the successful terrorists that get through the checkpoint because they know how to quickly say “Walmart!?” Let’s be generous and say that they manage to screen half of all crossers but are wasting their time with tourists who haven’t nailed down their shopping itenerary yet, then we would expect, again conservatively, that some 3 unscreened terrorists are getting through EVERY DAY! His statement makes no sense and his delivery reeks of deception. These poor brainwashed kapos.
46 johnl // May 26, 2010 at 4:25 PM
The lines into the USA are just too long. The last two times I went to Canada I got stopped for something and had to sing and dance. But it takes less time to go into Canada, including the song and dance, than to breeze into the USA with no problems.
47 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 4:39 PM
Yet one more time Shawn, you’ve missed the point entirely.
48 Nathan J // May 26, 2010 at 6:30 PM
Shawn, thanks for this link, it is very informative concerning Fourth Amendment searches at the border.
The thing that I wonder about, especially in light of several comments made on this thread about remaining silent (“when in doubt, STFU” is great advice, and should be heeded more often), is actually *when* remaining silent is protected, if at all. Since that link deals with Fourth Amendment issues, are you aware of similar case law on the Fifth Amendment right to silence at border crossings?
The officers put a lot of weight on their ability to conduct interviews, but such interviews do not fit the definition of a “search” under the Fourth Amendment.
or is all this talk of Constitutional Amendments intellectual masturbation on my part because the truth of the matter is that while in the custody of CBP, one has NO rights whatsoever?
49 Marmaduke's Uncle // May 26, 2010 at 7:01 PM
I believe in being very polite, kill with kindness, no snarky attitude. Then when the encounter is over, I write letters to the offender’s supervisor, chief, elected officials, etc. Why have a provocative incident if it doesn’t have to be. Some officers are badge-heavy jerkoffs. Get the names and go up the chain of command, very politely though. If possible, if you have a family member or friend who is an attorney and willing to cooperate, have he or she write on your behalf. Believe me, when the higher ups get a letter that opens, “Please be advise that our firm has been retained by AB in connection with incident involving Officer CD on such and such a date,” it gets noticed.
50 Jody // May 26, 2010 at 9:00 PM
I have lived in multiple countries (Canada, US, UK, South Africa, Morocco, Slovenia, France) and travel outside of Canada more than 30 times a year. I have never had the amount of attitude and general pain in the fucking ass as I have when I cross from Canada to the US and from the US to Canada. I’m not sure what it is about the longest undefended border in the world but it seems to turn the people manning it into a bunch of fucking assclowns. Going to the US it’s the whole bullshit war on terror, fine, isolate your country, if you don’t want the multi-billion dollars a year cross border shopping trade, fuck you then, good luck with your crashing economy. As for coming back to Canada, all the Canadian border guards want is to collect fees for our bloated federal government. Was the guy from Ontario an asshole? Of course, as an Albertan I can say that a lot of people from Ontario are assholes, think of what Californians are like, then you will understand. Was the border guard an asshole, yes, very much so, a power tripping asshole. But at the end of the day as long as we have federal governments those governments will keep hiring assholes to make our lives miserable and don’t for a minute think that border guards protect you, keep drinking the kool-aid.
51 Jody // May 26, 2010 at 9:03 PM
Just to add another point, one time when I had to fly out of Denver I had a TSA agent sniff my iPod shuffle, like she was some kind of drug dog or something, let’s get a fucking grip on reality people.
Jody´s last blog ..Financial Reform is a Waste of Time, Money, Energy, and Everything Else
52 Fred Z // May 26, 2010 at 9:17 PM
Really? You think the proper approach to an arrogant fascist is to “answer only what’s asked”? If this gets to the point where some thug demands in the sneering condescending tone these jerks use “Papieren, bitte”, that you will tug your forelock, cringe and provide the papers?
The USA is finished.
53 Dr. Q // May 26, 2010 at 9:23 PM
If a group of people is allowed to use arbitrarily violence against us simply because we “mouth off” to them, then what exactly are we being protected from?
54 Dr. Q // May 26, 2010 at 9:23 PM
If a group of people is allowed to arbitrarily use violence against us simply because we “mouth off” to them, then what exactly are we being protected from?
Dr. Q´s last blog ..“ACLU: Pa. Police [Wrongfully] Cite Hundreds Just for Cursing”
55 Fred Z // May 26, 2010 at 9:26 PM
Telling a jerk he is a jerk is not being a jerk.
The border guards, all of them, were acting like jerks. Perhaps they were doing so to get a response or some info. OK, that’s fine, but they were actually or apparently arrogant, whining, dishonest crapweasels. The Canuck told them so. Good for him.
When they then screwed him and his wife around when clearly over the line was wrong. You can tell very clearly that they had no concern at all that Canucki boy was doing anything legally wrong, they were just screwing with him.
Telling these jerks to behave, even irately, even poorly, even if it costs a few bucks in legal fees, even a few days in jail has become a moral duty.
What the hell has happened in the USA? It takes a Canadian to resist these jerks?
What kind of a man completely fabricates “3 terrorists a day”?
56 Dr. Q // May 26, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Shoe salesmen have the “important job” of ensuring that consumers are outfitted with footwear, but I don’t see anyone clamoring for “contempt-of-shoe-salesman” charges to be brought up against anyone.
Dr. Q´s last blog ..“ACLU: Pa. Police [Wrongfully] Cite Hundreds Just for Cursing”
57 Rusty Carr // May 26, 2010 at 10:32 PM
“Was the guy from Ontario an asshole? Of course, as an Albertan I can say that a lot of people from Ontario are assholes, think of what Californians are like, then you will understand.”
HO-CHEE-MAMA!! Now THAT’S some heavy stereotyping!! Jody, I’ve lived in CA almost all my life and I’ll swear on a stack of Bibles that I know at least THREE Californians who are not a-holes!!
58 Jody // May 27, 2010 at 12:01 AM
Three!? That many, wow, wish I knew that many people from Ontario that weren’t assholes! Seriously though, one would think that people would be kissing butts to get others to spend money in their country. I wish more Americans would come up to Canada to spend money, that would be awesome. It really boggles my mind why all the hassle still occurs, I thought free trade would do me some good, guess not.
Jody´s last blog ..Financial Reform is a Waste of Time, Money, Energy, and Everything Else
59 Shawn // May 27, 2010 at 12:15 AM
Since I can’t respond to Jody’s comment directly, I’ll do so here. I know a lot of nice people in Ontario, including some relatives. I also have nice relatives farther west in Canada, as well.
60 Shawn // May 27, 2010 at 12:24 AM
Rusty, please feel free to enlighten me as to which point I’m missing.
61 Pinandpuller // May 27, 2010 at 6:03 AM
I crossed over into Windsor with some friends during Spring Break. Our host, Matt, was from Bloomington Hills and he told us to be cool at the crossing and say that we were from The United States, not America.
Everything went great and just as soon as we came up from under the river Matt turned the wrong way down a one way street and we got pulled over!
He was cool and apologetic and the officer gave him a warning. We were going to go to a club but someone forgot their ID so we went five pin bowling and I got drunk.
62 Pinandpuller // May 27, 2010 at 6:05 AM
I must add that this was Spring Break in ’89 so things were probably a lot cooler back then.
63 oscar finch // May 27, 2010 at 10:29 AM
He got what he deserved and I think the agents were overly polite to him. He acted like an ass and got himself and his wife in trouble. Why would anybody going into another country act like that?
I like how he says do I look like a terrorist? It sounds to me this guy is pro racial profiling.
64 Hal B // May 27, 2010 at 12:56 PM
What, he wasn’t polite enough? Do we only allow polite people into the US? Are you not allowed to be rude here? Apparently, this guy crossed some invisible line of snarkiness with the first officer. This has me so upset I’m shaking right now from listening to this interview. And I’m sorry, but pulling away when someone tries to grab you is not assault, it’s defense. And it’s a knee-jerk defense, too. It’s exactly the same defense that any human living in the Western world is developing right now as we live in a “grab and prosecute” society. In the US, the cops will bust you up and ask questions later, so mind your P’s and Q’s, unless you want to be a martyr.
65 Rance // May 27, 2010 at 1:56 PM
I agree Rusty.
‘Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither’ – Benjamin Franklin
Rolling over like a bitch and STFU is never ok in a “free” society. STFU via having your attorney speak for you, is another matter entirely, though it should never come to that when dealing with the people sworn to protect our freedoms.
The Canadian man didn’t get an attitude until the border agent started asking asinine questions. I feel that the Canadian man was VERY respectful and courteous in light of what he was being put through. He was much more respectful than I would have been in that situation.
66 oscar finch // May 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM
I still say he got what he deserved. If your dumb enough to be an asshole when crossing into another country you get what you get.
It isn’t illegal to be ann ass but it isn’t wise to be an ass to the wrong people. You want to be a dick to them then they can be a dick right back and I think they will win.
67 Rance // May 27, 2010 at 2:06 PM
I should also note that, as legal passport carrying Canadian citizens, the couple had every right to be snarky if they wanted to. Imagine if it had been a New Yorker in the Canadian’s place when asked what stores they would be going to… I can imagine a “Your mutha’s” being the response, and the agent letting them through. God forbid someone chuckle and ask if that’s a serious question though.
68 Rance // May 27, 2010 at 2:20 PM
You seriously think the Canadian man was being an “asshole”? What sheltered life do you lead?
Slightly sarcastic maybe, yet he was never an asshole. The border agents inside the checkpoint were assholes.
69 oscar finch // May 27, 2010 at 2:41 PM
He was sarcastic with the first guy and an asshole to the second guy. I have crossed into canada and back and never had a problem. I have been waved over twice for further questioning and had my car searched. That is their job, it was inconvient for me but I understood that is what they do.
I also never felt like I should be subject to less scutiny because of my race but apparently this guy did.
70 Rance // May 27, 2010 at 3:16 PM
“I also never felt like I should be subject to less scutiny because of my race but apparently this guy did.”
Oh give me a break! Are you fucking serious? He never brought anything of the sort into question. Get real Oscar.
As for you charging him with being an asshole, put your big girl panties on and deal with it.
As far as the officers are concerned, if you can’t take a little verbal jab here or there, then you have no business calling yourself a man, and might as well start wearing a skirt. What I heard was a man that was rightfully frustrated with being patronized, and treated like an idiot. “Do you know where you are right now?” Get fucking real…
71 Rusty Carr // May 27, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Maybe if he’d made a “furtive movement” and had to be shot in the name of “officer safety” you still think he “got what he deserved”? If so, you need to pursue a career in law enforcement, you’d fit right in.
72 Rusty Carr // May 27, 2010 at 3:57 PM
Yep, you’d make an “ideal” cop, that’s for sure.
73 oscar finch // May 27, 2010 at 4:07 PM
Then what did he mean by “do I look like a terrorist”.
As far as dealing with it they did, they locked him up.
If you don’t want to answer questions don’t cross the border. Why should they turn the other cheek to some asshole when they don’t have to.
Nice getting the wife caught up in this to.
74 Rance // May 27, 2010 at 4:19 PM
Are you sure you aren’t Johnny Law?
What a weak and pathetic argument Oscar.
Rance´s last blog ..BinaryGravy: RT @marklevinshow: Obama has authority to lead the oil spill recovery but he won’t b/c he doesn’t know what to do… http://bit.ly/b7ayfz
75 oscar finch // May 27, 2010 at 4:23 PM
I had a feeling you wouldn’t be able to answer.
76 oscar finch // May 27, 2010 at 5:49 PM
Nice leap
Why is it ok to be an asshole to them but when they return the favor you cry?
77 Rusty Carr // May 27, 2010 at 7:10 PM
GO AWAY TROLL!!
78 Rusty Carr // May 27, 2010 at 7:14 PM
Say Oscar, practice this line, “Yoohoo oscifer, if I drop my pants and bend over would you give me a good progg’n, I don’t care if you’re gentle or not”. That should really cement your love affair with the boys in blue.
79 Shawn // May 28, 2010 at 3:09 AM
Why should he? You won’t even answer my question as to which point I’m missing, which makes me think that I’m seeing everything just fine, simply in a different, less biased light than you.
80 Rance // May 28, 2010 at 2:21 PM
The point you’re missing Shawn, is that if a cop is being an asshole to you, the minute you return the favor with an attitude of your own you are arrested for “Contempt of Cop” aka “Obstruction of Justice”. It’s exactly that sort of authoritarian fascist attitude that cops and people such as yourself and Oscar have that is one of the main problems with this country. It is rapidly becoming a police state similar to what Orwell wrote about in his novel 1984.
“Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain.”
“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing………. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.”
This work of fiction is, sadly, fast becoming a reality, and is exactly the mentality of these types of bureaucracies. Everyone is a criminal. Guilty until proven innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt.
You say you are looking at this in a “less biased light”, yet how can you look upon it at all if your eyes are shut?
81 Shawn // May 29, 2010 at 5:10 AM
My eyes are wide open. Only once have I had to deal with an officer giving me an attitude, and that was a few at the same time over a decade ago, and that was only because they honestly thought that I’d done something wrong. I may have been slightly flustered at the time, but I was suffering from a concussion and a small laceration, which later required an ER visit, that were caused by the person who inspired the cops to give me a hard time because that person had accused ME of assaulting them, explaining that my injuries were a result of self-defense. The only thing of which I was guilty was bad judgment, by letting that person into my apartment in the first place.
82 Shawn // May 29, 2010 at 5:12 AM
Oh, and just to note, they told me that I was lucky that the other person decided not to press charges. Gee, thanks, guys.
83 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 11:06 AM
I agree with you it’s amazing how some americans are so WILLING to give up their freedom, but these are the people who think cheney is a hero unreal
84 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 11:08 AM
your experience is totally different than mine, both sides are a joke
85 oscar finch // May 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM
Rance still hasn’t answered my question. By not answering he is in a way answering.
86 Rusty Carr // May 29, 2010 at 1:11 PM
You might want to try restating the question with a bit more clarity?
87 oscar finch // May 29, 2010 at 1:57 PM
What did he mean by “do I look like a terrorist” isn’t hard to comprehend.
88 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 2:29 PM
I not trying to have a big political debate but to be honest this country has been so deceived that teabag folks holler and scream about the constitution and say they will defend it with they’re lives but had NO problem with bush and cheney wiping their asses with it, it’s amazing when you have a population that refuses to exercise COMMON SENSE. Maybe this country wouldn’t have a TERRIORIST problem we stayed out of our peoples government and fix our own house
89 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 3:15 PM
listen I’ve read the typical “it didn’t happen to me, therefore it doesn’t exist story” when is is america going to face that equality and justice is for the most part an illusion? boarder gaurds or human’s also they have they’re issues too, think about it, a caucasian male driving a lexus are you gonna harrass the living hell out of him or are you going to play 20 questions with the darker complexion male driving a 88 Ford? money and race plays a big part in out society
90 Rance // May 29, 2010 at 3:49 PM
I didn’t answer you right away because it was a stupid question and didn’t warrant a response, yet since you won’t let it go, here it is…
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that it was a rhetorical question Oscar. I’m not surprised in the least that you didn’t understand it though.
I lost some good friends on 9/11, like many people did, yet law enforcement in this country has been invoking terrorism as an excuse to harass, and detain, anyone they want without cause for too damn long, and it MUST STOP.
‘Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither’ – Benjamin Franklin
91 Rance // May 29, 2010 at 4:03 PM
“this country has been so deceived that teabag folks holler and scream about the constitution and say they will defend it with they’re lives but had NO problem with bush and cheney wiping their asses with it”
No offense Gerald, but horse shit. The only time I ever agreed with Bush and Cheney, was their counter attack after 9/11. Bush was a horrible president, but Kerry was a shit choice as well. I can’t help but wonder that if Kerry had been elected instead of Bush, if Obama would be sitting where he is now? (Don’t worry, I’m not going to get started on how Obamao has fucked up this country)
Old Dubya isn’t to blame for everything. Alot of that shit leading up to 9/11 started with Senior and Clinton. It is a mistake to blame Dubya for all of it, even though I know you want to.
Tea partiers are from all parties – republican’t, democrap, conservative, liberal, and libertarian that are absolutely fed up with the way this country is being run. Don’t mistake Tea Partiers as being solely Bush supporters. I guarantee you they aren’t.
92 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 4:19 PM
Rusty is correct some officers let the authority and badge go to their head, folks lets stop this bullshit that you need to bow down to authority, wasn’t there a little story about these people being made to bow to this certain king George the 3rd?? yes the american revolution once authority has go wrong , it’s called SLAVERY as american’s our rights are being striped away more and more because we got sold that bullshit “the terriost are after us story”, the government for the most part created the terriost crap and now we have spent over 1 trillion dollars fighting shit we fueled with invading other countries and putting our people in positions of heads of state,,SEE SHAW OF IRAN
93 Rusty Carr // May 29, 2010 at 4:48 PM
That looks to me like a simple, straight forward question that could’ve been answered with a simple “Yes” or “No” answer. It didn’t require a show of force from the alpha male.
94 Rusty Carr // May 29, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Well stated.
95 Rusty Carr // May 29, 2010 at 4:52 PM
Hey GK, don’t be blaming the tea baggers for Geo. Bush. If you asked them they’d probably express about as much disdain for the man as you and I. I started out a big supporter of the guy but began getting disallusioned when he invaded Iraq on the basis of that phoney baloney WMD business.
96 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 4:55 PM
on offense but if your going to talk politics you might want to study harder,A- this country was FUCKED UP before Obama was even born B- Obama like many past presidents is not necessary running this country anyway, multibillion dollar global BUSINESS, wallstreet, senator taking bribes thats what running this country, don’t you know this country is being SOLD OUT piece by piece ? CHINA owns us! they buy most our debt and it’s around 800 BILLION dollars now you tell me who’s running this country?? do you think the u.s. is going to piss off china about anything ??? china uses it’s people basically as SLAVE LABOR and that’s exactly where this country is going, most of this shit stated with reagan, we went from the NO.1 creditor nation to damn near the NO.1 debtor nation durning his 8 years , most conversatites crack me up when they go on their ” I HATE COMMUNIST RANT’S” be don’t say one word about the china all up in our asses give me a break china owns us period
97 Rusty Carr // May 29, 2010 at 5:11 PM
Oh shit, here we go again. Its the “Blame American for Everything” line of crap!! PUKE!! Try to remember GK, it was the TERRORISTS who flew airplanes loaded with innocent non-combants into a couple of buildings. The government did not do that and unless you are a complete whacko you can’t believe it was a plot by the Bush administration.
98 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 5:53 PM
dude calm down! damn your looking for a fight aren’t you? first of all your assumptions about me are totally wrong! I don’t blame the u.s for everything just what we do wrong, listen stop waving the flag and STUDY american history and and STUDY world history and maybe you wouldn’t get online and show your ignorance. we supported saddam hussein(IRAQ) SEE RUMSFELD VISIT in 83 and put the shah in (IRAN) use you head, if the soviets in the 50s would have tried doing that, america would have screamed BLOODY MURDER! but when we invade other countries and governments it’s totally ok?! It’ funny what we feared from the soviets in the 50 ‘s about communism and them dominating the world turned out to be projection , this country can be great but until we clean up our issues how can we preach to our nations? if what we have is so great, why do we have to shove it down their throat’s? rather than argue with with your wild assumptions why don’t you educate yourself before launching your OPINIONS
99 Rance // May 29, 2010 at 6:06 PM
Gerald, in response to your post on May 29, 2010 at 4:55 PM . You’re the one that brought parties and politics up to begin with, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with your newest rant. The post you replied to had nothing whatsoever to do with politics. What’s your angle?
100 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 6:14 PM
I need to correct one thing SHAH OF IRAN my bad
101 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 6:47 PM
rance maybe if you took a minute to read my ealier post you wouldn’t have asked me such a half ass question, first rance whether you knew it since 9/11 and the politics involved things at the boarder crossing has changed this country has changed, in the way they treat people, and a lot of this is fueled by a notion that a terrorist would be dumb enough to bring a WMD to a boarder crossing, that’s like an illegal immigrant trying to get in through boarder crossing that’s a foolish way of doing it, so thats how politics got brought up maybe you need to take your own advice maybe you need a joint or lithium your showing at least one symptom poor judgement
102 oscar finch // May 29, 2010 at 7:53 PM
Oh I see, when somebidy you support ssys something racist you just say it was rhetorical and ignore it.
103 Rance // May 29, 2010 at 8:27 PM
LMAO! You’re unbelievable! There was NOTHING racist about his comment at all… What a weak, and misplaced, attempt at playing the race card.
Pathetic dude… Shameless and pathetic…
104 Rusty Carr // May 29, 2010 at 8:52 PM
I suspect I’m considerably better educated than you and PLEASE don’t try to lecture me about the events during the cold war, I lived through that era. I’m first to admit that the US has made its fair share of mistakes on this planet, what I’m not prepared to do is to sit by and let garbage like “…the government for the most part created the terriost crap…” just float by without taking a shot. That’s pure out and out nonsense. Islamic terrorism needs nothing more than another culture, that does not follow the precepts of the Koran, to break out and go beserko. WE DID NOT CREATE ISLAMIC TERRORISM!!! It is part and parcel to the whole Islamic experience. And BTW, I’m the first to admit that GWB probably WANTED to believe the CIA junk intelligence about WMDs in Iraq. Finally, I’m entitled to my OPINIONS just like anybody else here, you needn’t act as though I’ve spit on the Virgin Mary for expressing them.
105 gerald knight // May 29, 2010 at 10:38 PM
Your considerably more educated than me? no your very immature and you assume far too much, you don’t even know me, your providing evidence to everyone reading your opinions that your quite foolish , you do need a lecture so you stop embarrassing yourself, at any rate this is an website for sharing thoughts not trading insults, so get your parting insults and be gone I’m done hearing from you sir…..
106 Shawn // May 30, 2010 at 4:52 AM
Rance, you’re so racist that you don’t know that you’re being a racist, so stop being one.
Note: That was meant as a joke, as we need a little humor in this comment section.
107 gerald knight // May 30, 2010 at 11:55 AM
first off I thought MAYBE I SHOULDN”T POST THIS because I said that I was done, so forgive me but that rant you went on about Islamic terrorist was very interesting I’m not a Muslin I don’t even know one, I’ve never even touched the Koran but I had to LOL that your so well-versed on the subject but failed to mention that one of the worst acts of terrorism committed on this country was carried out by two CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTIST remember these two TIMOTHY McVEIGHT, TERRY NICHOLS? I know you dislike facts because you hate to be lectured, but when you go on spewing opinions about other hateful acts of terrorism you need to understand , we have home grown terrorist right here in this country carried out by two WASP
108 Rance // May 30, 2010 at 1:48 PM
I must be… Nah, I hate everyone equally.
Rance´s last blog ..BinaryGravy: RT @marklevinshow: Obama has authority to lead the oil spill recovery but he won’t b/c he doesn’t know what to do… http://bit.ly/b7ayfz
109 Phil // May 31, 2010 at 11:04 PM
You’ve lived on a border? So? I’ve lived on a border too. I’ve had my vehicle completely taken apart. But the officers at that time didn’t expect me to kiss their ass. And I don’t care if they are particularly friendly to me. Not that kissing ass is a sign of friendliness. The only thing which is important is that they do their job. You know, be professional. Fact is, border officials are the most corrupt people on this planet. The illegal shit that crosses borders couldn’t cross without them. But then again if all the border agents are as stupid as these guys that they are going to take several hours out of their day and many thousands of dollars out of the system to fuck with innocent people like this, well, you don’t have border security do you? They do not stop several terrorists a day with these “methods”. “I’m going shopping.” Wow what a dick! How suspicious! Obviously a terrorism suspect. Yeah I’m sure the Israelis have time to let some emotionally stunted freak’s egos dictate who should be stopped at a border. How effective. You’re slave and will never understand that one aspect of freedom is not having to kiss someone’s ass. I always wonder about you obedient drones who unquestioningly submit to any humiliation in order to just get along in life. But hey, I don’t like to kiss a stranger’s ass so it is a bit difficult to understand your point of view. And you probably still don’t see what snarky dicks these “officers” are. Great attitude you got there: hey everybody everywhere get down and keep your tail between your legs. Get ready Americans, this is the true nature of your freedom. Snarky bureaucrats answerable to no one.
110 Mike // Jun 18, 2010 at 7:52 PM
Even if this is real, it is edited. And not just trivially. There is a pretty obvious edit between where he says “what are you going to do, shoot me” and where they are accusing him of threatening them. What was edited out I wonder?
They can ask all the detailed questions they want. My objection is primarily that it is insane and counterproductive to arrest someone who doesn’t need arresting. Suppose they held this guy for a few hours even, and then kicked him loose. Still mighta made youtube, would have been a LOT less devastating. Same with Peter Watts, if they had not pressed charges, me and a lot of Americans who are going to hate our country for doing this crap would never have heard of it. In the case of Watts, they maced him, punched him, dropped him off on foot without his stuff in a storm to walk home. Why did they need to follow through by prosecuting him for contempt-of-cop?
But ultimately, this video is NOT verified. It is way too compact. You have border agents giving explanations for what they are doing. You have nearly perfect audio, not like ANY covert recording I have ever heard before. You have an almost perfect story line. There should be 50 border crossing recordings that aren’t nearly this compelling for every one that is this good.
I say don’t be pulled in by garbage. There is LOTS of pure real stuff on this blog and other places. Let’s make this one wait until somebody gives something even in the ball park of credibility to it. Even a STORY about what happened next would be good.
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