Clockwise from top left: Greg Richards, Mark Renninger, Ronald Owens and Tina Griswold.
By Carlos Miller
Police have turned against the media in the wake of four cops getting ambushed and executed in a Washington coffee shop over the weekend.
Lakewood police are blaming the KING-TV helicopter for interfering with their investigation. The Pierce County prosecutor is now considering filing charges against KING-TV’s news director and its helicopter pilot.
That case will get laughed out of court.
Meanwhile the murder suspect is still at large, so you would think these cops and prosecutors would focus on the criminals and stop making empty threats against reporters.
So far, police are looking for a “person of interest” named Maurice Clemmons, an ex-con with a violent history.
While it’s understandable that police might get annoyed at the hovering copter as they are searching for Clemmons, they should acknowledge that these copters might be the first to see Clemmons if he does take off running out of a backdoor. Hell, I am just surprised that they even have news choppers when most of the TV stations down here eliminated them from the budget.
And the truth is, these reporters want this guy off the streets as much as the cops do. But they also have a job to do.
Here is an exchange between police and reporters about this situation.
“They’ve hampered the investigation three times today; they’ve slowed us down,” Troyer told reporters gathered near the shooting scene.
“If that helicopter shows up again, you’re all out of here,” he said, urging other media to call KING.
“We need you, and we need the public’s help, but we also can’t risk having other people get hurt and having our operations jeopardized by a helicopter — which we’ve had three or four conversations with the news station and they don’t seem to care or understand or acknowledge the issue,” Troyer said.
KING-TV News Director Mark Ginther said he did not know why Troyer would say the station’s helicopter interfered with the investigation.”Each time I heard directly from him, we moved our helicopter,” Ginther said, adding, “we complied with the FAA regulations over the airspace.”
It really sounds as if these cops should lay off the reporters and start looking for Clemmons because if it turns out Clemmons didn’t do it, then it will be back to square one.
Considering they at first responded to a false alarm at a convenience store rather than the diner, they appear to like barking up wrong trees.
Popularity: 5% [?]
38 responses so far ↓
1 Chris // Nov 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM
You dont know shit you big mouth idiot. I live in leschi right down the street. you are just one more loudmouth trying to say your 2 cents about something that has nothing to do with you so fuck off
2 Chris // Nov 30, 2009 at 8:48 AM
Show some goddamm respect you criminal. U probably rooting for the killer who got his tonight. He dead too and good riddance. Go join him if you like him so much jagoff
3 Simon Jester // Nov 30, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Heh… You attract the finest of trolls, Carlos.
4 Jermaine Ferguson - High School Teacher // Nov 30, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Top right corner was the cutest
5 Simon Jester // Nov 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM
The guy they are looking for is looking to be nuttier than squirrel turds.
“He told them that families need to “be naked for at least 5 minutes on Sunday,” a Pierce County sheriff’s report says. The whole time Clemmons kept saying things like trust him, the world is going to end soon, and that he was Jesus,” the report says.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010385617_webmansought29.html
This doesn’t explain why the police can, or did, shut down the airspace around the crime scene. Are they afraid the criminals are going to fly away?
6 Jerri Lynn Ward // Nov 30, 2009 at 11:20 AM
“This doesn’t explain why the police can, or did, shut down the airspace around the crime scene. Are they afraid the criminals are going to fly away?”
Maybe their mission does not include mere apprehension and they don’t want the results on video.
7 Johnny Law // Nov 30, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Oh yes Carlos, the fact that the police needed the news helicopter to move is the big issue here. You really amaze me with your need to push your agenda no matter the situation. You ever think that perhaps the search for this killer is a little more important that making sure the media gets the right angle shot?
There are many ways the copter could have been getting in the way. Maybe it was too low. Maybe the rotor noise was too loud for people on the ground to communicate. Maybe the police helicopters were having to spend time avoiding the news helicopter instead of looking from a mass murderer. In a situation like this any rational person wouldn’t give two shits about the media until things are stabilized.
I can’t wait to hear some of the anti-cop spins that are going to come up in these comments. Fire away.
8 Rob Molecule // Nov 30, 2009 at 1:08 PM
There’s no reason for anti-cop sentiment. These people were shot in cold blood by what appears to be a sicko who should have not been released in the first place. I don’t see any reason to have anything negative to say about these slain officers. This article is about media access. Johnny Law, why try to bait people to bring anti-cop statements. There’s no place for that right now.
9 Carlos Miller // Nov 30, 2009 at 1:09 PM
JL,
Martial law does not go into effect just because four cops were killed (although it is a very tragic incident).
Besides, there are two sides to every story.
According to the Tacoma News Tribune, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department complained that the KING helicopter hovered over the crime scene Sunday morning, making it difficult for investigators to communicate with each other. The Sheriff’s Department claims that the station refused to move off when asked.
KING tells quite a different story. Competitor KIRO-TV quoted KING News Director Mark Ginther as saying that the station complied with FAA regulations at all times and moved the chopper every time it was requested to do so by local police authorities.
http://www.rbr.com/tv-cable/18874.html
10 Ariel // Nov 30, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Talk about having to straddle here. I agree with JL in that if the KING helo was pushing the FAA envelope on height and spacing it would be a distraction to say the least. I’ve been around military SAR helos and they are loud, I’m assuming civilian helos aren’t much quieter.
However, if the pilot wasn’t pushing the envelope then Carlos is right that the Police have nothing to say on the matter. I think the comment by the station manager, excluding the FAA compliance, could be taken that the pilot was pushing the envelope.
I won’t bother with JL’s epithet of abuse.
As for Chris, a perfect example of a limbic response (ok, I know its out of favor in neuroscience, but it is so apropos).
11 mepsipax // Nov 30, 2009 at 2:53 PM
Without knowing the truth the cops look like dicks. However, they were probably both a little wrong. But, rights are rights and the cops don’t control everything. So Johnny learn your law.
12 Johnny Law // Nov 30, 2009 at 5:34 PM
Gee thanks mepsipax. I think I know the law as it applies to police matters better than most of the folks who post on this site. You think that just because you disagree with something then the police should let it go. Sorry folks but it doesn’t work that way. The cops control the crime scene and they control things that interfere with them doing their jobs.
If this includes a clueless new chopper, then so be it.
13 Carlos Miller // Nov 30, 2009 at 7:28 PM
JL,
Now we go back to what defines interference.
Numerous photographers have been arrested for interference because they simply took a photo.
Right now, it’s he said, she said on this story.
And it is a very big story, especially for a place like Pierce County (although it would be a huge story in NYC).
So people’s passions on both sides of the equation (cops and journalists) are running very high.
But it’s safe to say that for the cops, it’s a lot more personal because these were four cops killed.
If four journalists had been killed, it would most definitely be the other way around.
Anybody who is flying a news chopper is not going to be a novice. This is not an assignment they hand to an intern.
I don’t see why the pilot would deliberately interfere with an investigation after being warned several times not to do that.
Most likely, he was doing his job and was accused of interfering with the investigation because the cops’ emotions are running very high and they don’t have anybody to take their frustrations out on at that moment.
Had they caught the guy, they would welcome the news chopper to hover in for a shot.
But that is not the case, so suddenly they perceive the media as the bad guy because they are reporting the truth; that this guy is still at large.
14 Johnny Law // Nov 30, 2009 at 8:14 PM
I think, and of course I wasn’t there, that the helicopter probably was getting in the way of PD helicopters that were searching the area. The pilot wouldn’t do this on purpose but may have been overzealous to get the scoop. I agree that the police were probably very emotional and short on patience. IMO, this is understandable considering the danger of the situation.
Why do you say the police perceived the media as the bad guy for reporting the truth? There is no conspiracy about the suspect being on the loose. It seems more like they just wanted the media to give them room to do their job safely.
Either way, I hope they catch this guy soon and he rots in jail like he should have the first 20 times he was arrested.
15 Jon Quimbly // Nov 30, 2009 at 8:33 PM
This caper has a plot that puts me to mind of LA Confidential.
Helicopters … tempest in a teapot. Cops are probably mad cause their COPS footage got messed up. Sniff.
16 Michaelk42 // Nov 30, 2009 at 9:59 PM
@Johnny Law
Isn’t it great that you can post your comments here, even though you’re insulting and ignorant, and Carlos allows it without moderating?
Unlike http://law-chronicles.blogspot.com which for some reason (could it be shame?) you don’t link to in your name.
Face it JL. They were upset and losing their cool because someone got some of their own, and that scares them. That’s called being human.
Too bad they couldn’t suppress that just enough to be professional.
17 Johnny Law // Nov 30, 2009 at 10:17 PM
@Michael
Once again you let your personal rage get you off topic. Perhaps you could suppress your hatred of me and other cops long enough to see the beam in your own eye when you talk about being insulting and ignorant.
It must really stick in your craw that cops have their own opinion about things. It is unfortunate because it makes you look like an angry little man.
@Jon
Yes, that is exactly right. We are angry that we won’t be on COPS. It has nothing to do with the murder of four of our own.
18 Michaelk42 // Nov 30, 2009 at 10:36 PM
@Johnny Law
No rage. And your statement
“I can’t wait to hear some of the anti-cop spins that are going to come up in these comments. Fire away.”
puts your hypocrisy dead-on topic.
Say what you will, JL, but calling me names doesn’t make legitimate criticisms go away. You also seem to confuse “having opinions” with “being condescending and insulting.”
So are you going to actually respond to the points?
19 Johnny Law // Nov 30, 2009 at 11:48 PM
I’m sorry Mike. I don’t see any points from you to respond to. All I get from you is that you don’t like the way my blog is run. Whah, whah, whah. If you have a problem with it, don’t go there.
I’ve looked at your site and I don’t find it even remotely interesting enough to comment on. However thanks for the free links! Glad you find it interesting enough to keep talking about.
I hope you keep reading it. Maybe one day you will actually learn something about police work.
I disagree with Carlos on a lot of things and I think he has a very strong anti-cop agenda. I think it is unfortunate that he had such an unpleasant experience with his local PD. If those officers had handled the situation a little better, I doubt this blog would have the same tone. I do take that as an example that you should treat people as professionally as possible because their experience often will color their opinion of all police (right or wrong).
I do agree that many police have a real dislike of being filmed. I think it is because any video of use of force will get posted on the internet and immediately be jumped on by armchair quarterbacks like Michael42 who have no real idea of what they are talking about. It often seems that no matter the situation, there are people who will declare it excessive.
I don’t think that was the reason for wanting the helicopter to leave. I think they just wanted to find the killer and the copter was getting in the way. There is no big conspiracy here and I think complaining about it is reaching to find fault with the police about something, no matter the situation.
Sorry if my opinion offends you Mike. Guess you just have to live with it.
20 Michaelk42 // Dec 1, 2009 at 12:29 AM
@Johnny Law
Once again, you miss the point. You complain about all the comments you’re not going to agree with (and argue with) here, when on your own blog you simply don’t allow anything that could possibly challenge you. I’m not complaining about how you run your blog, I’m pointing out your hypocrisy. Now that I’ve spelled it out, do you get it?
As for links… you’re unfamiliar with rel=”nofollow” aren’t you?
But I do want people to see your site. I don’t have to tell people you’re hateful and condescending, they can just go look and see for themselves.
Also, if you’re so proud of your site, why don’t you link to it in the comment form here?
You can’t seem to learn that pointing out police misconduct isn’t cop-hating, much less hating all cops. Of course, you also seem to think disliking or disagreeing with you specifically means someone is anti-cop. That’s your own logical failing, right there.
Your opinion doesn’t offend me… it’s your disrespect and hate for the people you’re supposed to serve.
21 Johnny Law // Dec 1, 2009 at 1:20 AM
@Mike
Yeah you are complaining about how I run my blog. I get it just fine. I put it up to tell stories and get some things off my chest. I had the comments open for several years but I started getting spammed by trolls who simply wanted to tell me they hated cops, we deserve to die, police = Nazis, yada, yada, yada. Frankly it got old.
If someone puts up a counter comment that isn’t insulting or ridiculous and I often post it. Some topics, such as the death of an officer, will not ever have negative comments posted out of respect for that officer. Either way, it’s my blog and there are plenty of other places to express your contempt for my brethren. Deal with it.
Once again, sorry if that offends you but don’t surf there if pro-cop opinions infuriate you so much.
I don’t link to my blog here because I don’t feel the need to plug it constantly. I get plenty of hits and I am not trying to drum up traffic. That isn’t why I post here. I post here becuase some of you have very strong ideas about police but very little actual knowledge. I often feel the need to put forth the cop’s point of view so that maybe someone will have that “aha” moment and reconsider their views.
Apparently Carlos doesn’t have a problem with me posting because he has a link to my site on his front page. This is another reason I don’t feel the need to put a link in my comments. I didn’t ask him to link to it but I appreciate it all the same.
When I told you thanks for the line, I meant the one you put up on your blog. I doubt I get any traffic from it but it was a nice thought by you.
Sorry you are so mad your comments don’t get posted. I probably didn’t post yours because you seem to have a problem staying on topic and tend to wander in the conversation. You seem more concerned about posting “gotcha” type comments than actually having a discussion.
Finally, pointing out police misconduct is fine. However there is a difference in talking about that and trying to find fault in every police related topic that comes up. Sometimes it is like you (the commenters) don’t even bother to watch the posted videos before the negative comments start rolling in.
As far as you being offended, I don’t have any love for criminals and I don’t feel the need to be PC about it. After over a decade of dealing with them, I have opinions that have some basis in practical experience. If you want to call them disrespectful and full of hatred because they disagree with your precious notions, I can live with that. Whatever helps you continue the farce that you know what you are talking about, go with it.
22 Chris Mallory // Dec 1, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Of course news directors and helicopter pilots aren’t likely to shoot back. So much safer to let the perp bleed out somewhere and threaten the sheep.
23 Michaelk42 // Dec 1, 2009 at 3:07 PM
@Johnny Law
No Johnny. *You* complained about the comments *here*. I just pointed out your hypocrisy. Presenting evidence of such isn’t complaining. You don’t want to hear about your hypocrisy, don’t complain about the comments here (as you did back in #7, before I ever got here.)
It’s not about promoting yourself, Johnny. Of course, as narcissistic as you are, you wouldn’t understand that. I put my real name and link to my blog in my comments so people can easily see who’s behind what I’m saying.
You. on the other hand, might get away with people not making the connection between your handle and the link to your anonymous blog.
(BTW, I know you meant the lin(k) in my blog. That’s the one with the rel=”nofollow” in it. I guess you really don’t understand.)
And Johnny, now you’re a liar. I have submitted exactly *one* comment to your blog. I asked why you couldn’t apologize to the photographer whose photograph you used without permission. Instead of insulting her and pretending like you did nothing wrong.
Because you did do something that is *factually illegal*. You then used those people in that picture as an example of the “criminals” you were posting about. That’s False Light defamation. That’s not being offended at you “having no love for criminals.” That’s pointing out that *you’re breaking civil law*.
It’s a simple question, nothing more. It is not “comments” nor was it “off topic.” No one is asking for (your possibly fictional) badge.
Just to be a human being, admit you did something wrong, and apologize to the people you wronged .
OR you could continue to be a lying, bullying anonymous coward, whose opinion should mean little, here or anywhere else.
24 Some Guy // Dec 1, 2009 at 6:02 PM
Well, it looks like Clemmons won. He killed 4 cops and they only killed 1 of him.
Maybe the cops will do better next time, but probably not.
25 C N // Dec 2, 2009 at 2:06 PM
Having done Evidence Searches in the past I can tell you it’s not just the Noise that makes Things more difficult. The bigger Problem is also the Rotorwash – i.e. incredible AirMovement or Wind created by the Chopper; it blows Stuff everywhere that’s not tied down. So what happens then to any Evidence that may have been there? It’s moved, blown away and just gone. I don’t like to see Cops strongarm People, but they do have a difficult Job to do and Things are much more productive when there is TeamWork.
And to ‘Some Guy’ – SHAME ON YOU. These 4 Officers did nothing but get ready for another Day of Work – you obviously don’t know what that is. I don’t see you out there protecting anyone or putting your Life in Jeopardy to help others. You need to just stay in the Shack you come from and keep shining your Jewels – clearly your no good for anything or anyone else. Maybe you have no Jewels to shine – that’s about the only Explanation for your Comment.
26 Mee // Dec 2, 2009 at 6:46 PM
why is Day of Work in caps? Is that a holiday? Life in Jeopardy, a proper name? Jewels, Shack, Jewels. Have you never written anything in english before?
27 Sean // Dec 2, 2009 at 7:40 PM
@ C N,
Like it or not ‘Some Guy’ was just stating the truth about this quadruple murder. Maybe if Seattle cops had focused on monitoring real criminals instead of using their street crimes team to beat up jaywalkers then none of this would’ve happened. Your petty insults only make you look bad. Cops should focus on real police work instead of stereotyping those they dislike or think are against them. If they had 4 of their own might be alive today. Sorry if the truth hurts.
28 Johnny Law // Dec 3, 2009 at 3:37 AM
Sean,
Hey wiseguy, the shooting was in Lakewood. Seattle was where this piece of human trash finally got put out to the curb. Get your locations right before you open your mouth.
As for your comments about how it could have been avoided, the shooter was out of bond for sexual assault of a child. How does this have anything to do with the police “beating up jaywalkers”? I don’t think this guy was trying to send some big social message about police brutality. He was just a violent criminal who wanted to go out with a bang.
Sorry if pointing out your lack of reading comprehension hurts.
Mike, I see you are still whining about my blog. How about we talk about this subject of the shooting since it was the original topic? You seem to have a personal vendetta so post about that on your site and stop cluttering up this one.
Oh and great shooting by the Seattle PD. Glad to see there are a few warriors out there.
29 Michaelk42 // Dec 3, 2009 at 8:17 AM
@Johnny Law
Why you couldn’t apologize to the photographer whose photograph you used without permission, instead of insulting her and pretending like you did nothing wrong?
Why are you too much of a coward to answer this question?
Why should anyone listen to you about anything until you do?
30 C N // Dec 3, 2009 at 11:22 AM
Mee,
please accept my Apologies for capitalizing – despite 28 Years in the US I still seem to ‘type with an Accent’. English was my 3rd Language and I forget that many Folks – like yourself – only speak one Language. But if that is your only Concern about my Post – well, you clearly missed the Point.
How would you like to get ready for Work and get blown away my a Maniac who should never have been let out to walk the Streets?
The many calleous Comments about this senseless Shooting leave me wondering about these Posters – what a Bunch of Psychopaths. As a Volunteer EMT I have to help People like that when I’m on Duty – and frankly, I’m taking some Time off.
31 C N // Dec 3, 2009 at 11:33 AM
Sean:
‘Real Crime’ – I guess that could have a different Definition for different People? Is that like being ‘Real Pregnant’?
Now if you have a Job – then you know that ANY Job you do requires some PrepWork. So the next Time you get out your Bucket, Mop, and Cleaner and some Maniac comes by and beats you to a Pulp ‘just because’ – would that be a ‘Real Crime’?
32 Ray // Dec 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM
I haven’t seen any mention that the local police have, or were using, helicopters of their own.
If the local police were using helicopters then the arguments of noise and rotor wash are invalid (you would have had police chopper noise). The only way they could have been interfering is to have been below the police helicopters which would have been a much bigger issue.
If however there were no local police choppers, then the issue would have been if the news helicopter was behaving within FAA regulations which already take into consideration local police activities and non-interference with such. I’ve seen no mention of the police claiming the station violated FCC rules.
33 M // Dec 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM
Cops are now circulating an unofficial photo Clemmons death
http://shavedlongcock.blogspot.com/2009/12/corpse-of-cop-killer-maurice-clemmons.html
34 Ricci // Dec 6, 2009 at 12:07 PM
The people here who are getting angry must be cops. Calling another person a criminal and accussing them of being on the side of the criminal. It is no wonder to me that cops are getting shot. I suppose that their actions,(beating up teenage girls and executing helpless teenage boys) have nothing to do with these shootings. In my opinion, the peole are getting tire of these dirty cops.
35 Ricci // Dec 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM
is ther a place to view the slain “HERO’s” provided by the police? Official or un-official? This is my problem, cops have no class.
36 Johnny Law // Dec 6, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Putting the picture up is unnecessary and unprofessional. I am glad the POS is dead but I don’t think putting that pic up is doing the police any favors.
With that being said, Ricci, you are total idiot.
37 Michaelk42 // Dec 16, 2009 at 7:02 AM
@Johnny Law
Why are you still too much of a coward to answer the question?
Why should anyone listen to you about anything until you do?
38 Det. Shavedlongcock // Dec 20, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Thank you for the link to my site. I appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Detective Shavedlongcock
Chicago, Illinois
Leave a Comment