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	<title>Comments on: Does Kurt Greenbaum need to resign?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/</link>
	<description>It's a First Amendment Right</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:03:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: KG</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17360</link>
		<dc:creator>KG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17360</guid>
		<description>Pussy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pussy.</p>
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		<title>By: Kylie</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17245</link>
		<dc:creator>Kylie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17245</guid>
		<description>Carlos said &quot;destroying the newspaper’s credibility at a time when newspapers need to hang on to every ounce of credibility they have.&quot;

Carlos - that would be assuming that the P-D ever had any credibility to begin with. If they did, they lost it at least 30 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos said &#8220;destroying the newspaper’s credibility at a time when newspapers need to hang on to every ounce of credibility they have.&#8221;</p>
<p>Carlos &#8211; that would be assuming that the P-D ever had any credibility to begin with. If they did, they lost it at least 30 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: robert</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17238</link>
		<dc:creator>robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17238</guid>
		<description>aDeled http://j8Jw83mNs0doPpsqvjrcns5.info</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aDeled <a href="http://j8Jw83mNs0doPpsqvjrcns5.info" rel="nofollow">http://j8Jw83mNs0doPpsqvjrcns5.info</a></p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17221</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17221</guid>
		<description>(Apologies for a lengthy post, but I think it&#039;s directly on topic)

Does he need to resign? I&#039;d say it was a pretty clear cut case of &quot;Yes. Immediately. Before his employers fire him - if they have any ethics at all&quot; (This last may be questionable however - see this clip http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Man-fired-over-Post-Dispatch-Web-posting-70667577.html)

However make up your own mind, here is a post copied from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch site ( http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/11/follow-up-the-case-of-the-vulgar-comment-and-the-school/ ) which outlines some of the ethics rules Greenbaum himself recognizes he should live by. Does anyone think he did?


&quot;Greenbaum has some bookmarks saved on delicious. One of them is to the Society of Professional Journalists: Code of Ethics. His description of the bookmark is “Hard to go wrong with the code of ethics of SPJ. It pretty much spells out the ethical issues — and it keeps it short and to the point.”

Below are some relevant extracts.

Preamble
Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues. Conscientious journalists from all media and specialties strive to serve the public with thoroughness and honesty. Professional integrity is the cornerstone of a journalist’s credibility. Members of the Society share a dedication to ethical behavior and adopt this code to declare the Society’s principles and standards of practice.

Seek Truth and Report It
Journalists should be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.

Journalists should:

— Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.
— Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.
…
— Make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context.
….
— Tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience boldly, even when it is unpopular to do so.
— Examine their own cultural values and avoid imposing those values on others.
— Avoid stereotyping by race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, geography, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance or social status.
— Support the open exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
— Give voice to the voiceless; official and unofficial sources of information can be equally valid.
— Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.
…

Minimize Harm
Ethical journalists treat sources, subjects and colleagues as human beings deserving of respect.

Journalists should:

— Show compassion for those who may be affected adversely by news coverage. Use special sensitivity when dealing with children and inexperienced sources or subjects.
— Be sensitive when seeking or using interviews or photographs of those affected by tragedy or grief.
— Recognize that gathering and reporting information may cause harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance.
— Recognize that private people have a greater right to control information about themselves than do public officials and others who seek power, influence or attention. Only an overriding public need can justify intrusion into anyone’s privacy.
— Show good taste. Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity.
— Be cautious about identifying juvenile suspects or victims of sex crimes.
— Be judicious about naming criminal suspects before the formal filing of charges.
— Balance a criminal suspect’s fair trial rights with the public’s right to be informed.

……

Be Accountable
Journalists are accountable to their readers, listeners, viewers and each other.

Journalists should:

— Clarify and explain news coverage and invite dialogue with the public over journalistic conduct.
— Encourage the public to voice grievances against the news media.
— Admit mistakes and correct them promptly.
— Expose unethical practices of journalists and the news media.
— Abide by the same high standards to which they hold others.

The SPJ Code of Ethics is voluntarily embraced by thousands of
writers, editors and other news professionals. The present version of
the code was adopted by the 1996 SPJ National Convention, after months
of study and debate among the Society’s members.

So:

Would Greenbaum care to explain his views on how he met the Code of Ethics he subscribes to in this case?

Is the inevitable deletion of this post in accordance with the code of ethics above, particularly the section on accountability.

Are he, and his management, aware that I am just an amateur bystander who happens to be outraged by his conduct in this matter but that professional lawyers and researchers can, and probably will, produce reams of similar relevant information?

cc: To file&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Apologies for a lengthy post, but I think it&#8217;s directly on topic)</p>
<p>Does he need to resign? I&#8217;d say it was a pretty clear cut case of &#8220;Yes. Immediately. Before his employers fire him &#8211; if they have any ethics at all&#8221; (This last may be questionable however &#8211; see this clip <a href="http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Man-fired-over-Post-Dispatch-Web-posting-70667577.html)" rel="nofollow">http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Man-fired-over-Post-Dispatch-Web-posting-70667577.html)</a></p>
<p>However make up your own mind, here is a post copied from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch site ( <a href="http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/11/follow-up-the-case-of-the-vulgar-comment-and-the-school/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/11/follow-up-the-case-of-the-vulgar-comment-and-the-school/</a> ) which outlines some of the ethics rules Greenbaum himself recognizes he should live by. Does anyone think he did?</p>
<p>&#8220;Greenbaum has some bookmarks saved on delicious. One of them is to the Society of Professional Journalists: Code of Ethics. His description of the bookmark is “Hard to go wrong with the code of ethics of SPJ. It pretty much spells out the ethical issues — and it keeps it short and to the point.”</p>
<p>Below are some relevant extracts.</p>
<p>Preamble<br />
Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues. Conscientious journalists from all media and specialties strive to serve the public with thoroughness and honesty. Professional integrity is the cornerstone of a journalist’s credibility. Members of the Society share a dedication to ethical behavior and adopt this code to declare the Society’s principles and standards of practice.</p>
<p>Seek Truth and Report It<br />
Journalists should be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.</p>
<p>Journalists should:</p>
<p>— Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.<br />
— Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.<br />
…<br />
— Make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context.<br />
….<br />
— Tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience boldly, even when it is unpopular to do so.<br />
— Examine their own cultural values and avoid imposing those values on others.<br />
— Avoid stereotyping by race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, geography, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance or social status.<br />
— Support the open exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.<br />
— Give voice to the voiceless; official and unofficial sources of information can be equally valid.<br />
— Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.<br />
…</p>
<p>Minimize Harm<br />
Ethical journalists treat sources, subjects and colleagues as human beings deserving of respect.</p>
<p>Journalists should:</p>
<p>— Show compassion for those who may be affected adversely by news coverage. Use special sensitivity when dealing with children and inexperienced sources or subjects.<br />
— Be sensitive when seeking or using interviews or photographs of those affected by tragedy or grief.<br />
— Recognize that gathering and reporting information may cause harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance.<br />
— Recognize that private people have a greater right to control information about themselves than do public officials and others who seek power, influence or attention. Only an overriding public need can justify intrusion into anyone’s privacy.<br />
— Show good taste. Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity.<br />
— Be cautious about identifying juvenile suspects or victims of sex crimes.<br />
— Be judicious about naming criminal suspects before the formal filing of charges.<br />
— Balance a criminal suspect’s fair trial rights with the public’s right to be informed.</p>
<p>……</p>
<p>Be Accountable<br />
Journalists are accountable to their readers, listeners, viewers and each other.</p>
<p>Journalists should:</p>
<p>— Clarify and explain news coverage and invite dialogue with the public over journalistic conduct.<br />
— Encourage the public to voice grievances against the news media.<br />
— Admit mistakes and correct them promptly.<br />
— Expose unethical practices of journalists and the news media.<br />
— Abide by the same high standards to which they hold others.</p>
<p>The SPJ Code of Ethics is voluntarily embraced by thousands of<br />
writers, editors and other news professionals. The present version of<br />
the code was adopted by the 1996 SPJ National Convention, after months<br />
of study and debate among the Society’s members.</p>
<p>So:</p>
<p>Would Greenbaum care to explain his views on how he met the Code of Ethics he subscribes to in this case?</p>
<p>Is the inevitable deletion of this post in accordance with the code of ethics above, particularly the section on accountability.</p>
<p>Are he, and his management, aware that I am just an amateur bystander who happens to be outraged by his conduct in this matter but that professional lawyers and researchers can, and probably will, produce reams of similar relevant information?</p>
<p>cc: To file&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17219</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17219</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jen

What if he turns out to be a child molester?&quot;

In terms of argument that is what is known as a &quot;straw man&quot; statement, i.e. push out something totally ridiculous that bears little or no relation  to the original point and try to make the argument about your &quot;straw man&quot; rather than the real man.  

It&#039;s a technique Fox News uses all the time. Unfortunately the only people who are fooled by it are the sort who believe that Fox News really is &quot;fair and balanced&quot;.

However give Fox News credit for knowing their audience. All the demographic information available on the Republican Party shows that it&#039;s core base is now pretty much restricted to the poorly educated, the low income groups and religious fundamentalists.  There are some exceptions of course but in advertising demographic terms the Republicans occupy the lowest C, D and E territory. So expecting informed and intelligent debate from their supporters is probably an exercise in futility.

Quite symmetric really. The &quot;Red States&quot; are largely populated by rednecks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jen</p>
<p>What if he turns out to be a child molester?&#8221;</p>
<p>In terms of argument that is what is known as a &#8220;straw man&#8221; statement, i.e. push out something totally ridiculous that bears little or no relation  to the original point and try to make the argument about your &#8220;straw man&#8221; rather than the real man.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a technique Fox News uses all the time. Unfortunately the only people who are fooled by it are the sort who believe that Fox News really is &#8220;fair and balanced&#8221;.</p>
<p>However give Fox News credit for knowing their audience. All the demographic information available on the Republican Party shows that it&#8217;s core base is now pretty much restricted to the poorly educated, the low income groups and religious fundamentalists.  There are some exceptions of course but in advertising demographic terms the Republicans occupy the lowest C, D and E territory. So expecting informed and intelligent debate from their supporters is probably an exercise in futility.</p>
<p>Quite symmetric really. The &#8220;Red States&#8221; are largely populated by rednecks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mysterio</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17189</link>
		<dc:creator>Mysterio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17189</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen elsewhere that it was not just the word &quot;pussy.&quot; Here&#039;s what&#039;s alleged to be the full comment:

&quot;I have eaten many different animals (or at least parts of them), including rattlesnake, crocodile, alligator, iguana, 
turtle, and many different molluscs, arthropods, echinoids, and whatnot from sea or river. I have also eaten squirrel, 
bear, dog, and cat. So, I can say I have eaten pussy, and you can interpret or misinterpret it any way you want. Oh, 
and woof-woof, too.&quot;

http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2009/Nov/216</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen elsewhere that it was not just the word &#8220;pussy.&#8221; Here&#8217;s what&#8217;s alleged to be the full comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;I have eaten many different animals (or at least parts of them), including rattlesnake, crocodile, alligator, iguana,<br />
turtle, and many different molluscs, arthropods, echinoids, and whatnot from sea or river. I have also eaten squirrel,<br />
bear, dog, and cat. So, I can say I have eaten pussy, and you can interpret or misinterpret it any way you want. Oh,<br />
and woof-woof, too.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2009/Nov/216" rel="nofollow">http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2009/Nov/216</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17177</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17177</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Doug.  I was really being somewhat sarcastic.  Anyway, the home phone is not in my name, so it will be funny if my other half gets snatched at work and thrown into the van....lol.  But that Skype thingy looks good. I will have to check that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Doug.  I was really being somewhat sarcastic.  Anyway, the home phone is not in my name, so it will be funny if my other half gets snatched at work and thrown into the van&#8230;.lol.  But that Skype thingy looks good. I will have to check that out.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17173</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17173</guid>
		<description>Oops. &quot;work&quot; = &quot;word&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops. &#8220;work&#8221; = &#8220;word&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-to-resign/#comment-17172</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=8732#comment-17172</guid>
		<description>To Jake:

If you&#039;re worried about them getting your Caller ID I have one work for you, Skype. 

VOIP from any computer or Wi-Fi enabled mobile.  Free calls to any phone in North America for $3 a month!

http://www.skype.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Jake:</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re worried about them getting your Caller ID I have one work for you, Skype. </p>
<p>VOIP from any computer or Wi-Fi enabled mobile.  Free calls to any phone in North America for $3 a month!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.skype.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.skype.com/</a></p>
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