Update: Is the mainstream media going to touch the Kurt Greenbaum story?
By Carlos Miller
It’s been three days since St. Louis Post-Dispatch social media editor Kurt Greenbaum bragged about how he caused a man to lose his job and he has since been enduring an onslaught of negative comments against him on his blog.
It got to the point where he had to shut comments down on the post, most likely to give him a chance to collect everybody’s IP address and begin the grueling task of contacting their employers.
It’s a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.
Or do they?
Greenbaum still sees nothing wrong with contacting the employer of a man who thought he had left an anonymous comment in one of Greenbaum’s blog posts.
The man left a single word. Pussy. An obvious attempt of humor because the headline of the post was “What’s the craziest thing you’ve ever eaten?”
While it is a vulgar word, it is not exactly the most profane word in the English language. It is not even one of the seven words that are supposedly banned by the Federal Communications Commission.
Let’s not forget that Pussy Galore was a character in a James Bond movie Goldfinger. Or that Octopussy was the title of another James Bond movie. And both those movies came out more than 30 years ago.
You would think we would not need to pussyfoot around such words anymore.
Nevertheless, it is a word that offended Greenbaum to the point where he contacted a local school after discovering from the IP address the comment came from there. He then forwarded them the email with details that could lead them to the commenter.
Six hours later, the school’s headmaster contacted him and told him that the school’s IT director “took a shine to the challenge” and tracked the man down.
The man ended up resigning on the spot.
After more than 150 comments from people that were mostly disgusted by his actions, Greenbaum responded with a follow-up post on Thursday where he tried to justify his actions by stating that he viewed the opportunity to contact the man’s employer as a “teachable moment.”
But judging by the more than 100 comments on his second post (as well as the first 151 comments), it is Greenbaum who needs to learn a lesson.
Many of his readers are demanding he resign or be fired. Many are simply asking for an apology. And some are saying he should do what he can to get the man his job back.
But Greenbaum has shown nothing but sheer arrogance since his original post.
First, he bragged about how well he sleeps at night despite causing a man to lose his job.
Then he referred to the man he got fired (let’s save ourselves from the technicalities) as a “jackass who posted a vulgarity on our site” on Twitter.
Then he either lied or simply proved his incompetence as a social media editor by stating that by blocking the man’s IP address, which I would have done if I were in his position, he would have made it impossible for anybody at the school to access the site.
No, that would have just held any comment from that IP address in moderation, which would have allowed him to approve of proper comments with a simple click of the mouse. The site would not be inaccessible (although there is a plug-in where you can make it inaccessible to certain IP addresses).
Then there is also the question as to why the Post-Dispatch allows racist comments filled with hate on a daily basis, yet contacts a man’s employer over the word pussy.
There is also the question on whether Greenbaum violated the Post-Dispatch’s privacy policy by contacting the school and forwarding them the email. He claims he hasn’t but that issue is debatable.
First Amendment attorney and Photography is Not a Crime reader Marc Randazza, who is a former journalist, agrees that Greenbaum violated this policy and is calling for his resignation.
Randazza has even gone through the trouble of posting the name and contact info of Greenbaum’s boss, in case you want to let him know how you feel (I reposted it below).
Regardless of what legalities Greenbaum may have violated, he certainly violated the confidentiality between his readers and the newspaper, one of the main principles of journalism; a fundamental so sacred that many journalists have spent time in jail before revealing a source.
In fact, I recently reported on an independent news site that was refusing to give up its readers’ IP addresses, even though it had been ordered to do so with a federal subpoena. Other news site have won legal battles after they were subpoenaed to turn over their readers’ IP addresses.
And here we have Greenbaum voluntarily giving up the IP address of a reader that offended him, destroying the newspaper’s credibility at a time when newspapers need to hang on to every ounce of credibility they have.
And he also cast a shadow of doubt over other journalists and bloggers who do respect their readers’ confidentiality.
I, for one, want to assure my readers that I would never do such a thing, even to those readers who are my main critics. And believe me, I’ve had plenty of opportunities to do so.
You would have to make a threat and I would have to take it seriously, which I usually don’t, for me to go to the extreme of contacting somebody’s employer.
More than likely, if you make a threat against me, I would challenge you to go through with it. And we’ll take it from there.
Snitching has always struck a raw nerve with me, but this story has especially struck a nerve considering I recently lost my job at NBC after calling another blogger a prick on his blog (after the prick insulted me numerous times on this blog).
I did so on my own time. From my own home and computer. And I did so while representing this blog, not NBC. And the word prick is about as vulgar as pussy. Not the most hardcore of words.
But the blogger contacted my editor, then her editor and then human resources complaining about my comment, which he never posted anyway.
And I ended up getting fired just over a week later.
These two incidents prove that the mainstream media is still out of touch with the reality of the new media. There was a time not too long ago where the corporate media could dictate what can be published and what can’t be published.
Back then, Freedom of the Press was restricted to those rich enough to own a press.
Back then, Greenbaum might have bragged about getting the man fired in the newspaper. And a few people might have been outraged enough to write letters to the editor. And the newspaper might have been brave enough to publish a few of those letters.
But you would never see a total of 250 letters showing their disgust for Greenbaum as you see in the comment sections of his two blog posts. And that’s considering they’ve deleted a few comments, according to some of the commenters.
They can delete them all but that’s still not going to shut people up.
In fact, people are already starting to leave their comments on Greenbaum’s Flickr page, from which the above photo was pulled.
And they’re not pussyfooting around either.
To share your feelings with Greenbaum’s boss (hey, this is only fair, right?):
Kevin Mowbray
Phone: 314-340-8970
E-mail: kmowbray@post-dispatch.com
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I am a multimedia journalist who has been fighting a lengthy legal battle after having photographed Miami police against their wishes in Feb. 2007. Please help the fight by donating to my Legal Defense Fund in the top left sidebar, which helps pay for the thousands of dollars I’ve acrued in debt since my arrest. To keep updated on the latest articles, join my networks at Facebook, Twitterand Friendfeed.
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Fernandez, as I mentioned in a 
no words
See, i work as a systems admin and if some jerkwad contacted me asking to reprimand a user on my network for posting on a blog i’d tell him to fly a kite.
The IT director at the school should be fired, he’s probably an idiot anyhow. it’s not a damn challenge to see who pulled up the blog on the schools network. Allow me to demonstrate!
23:03:44 192.168.2.248 http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/19/does-kurt-greenbaum-need-...
wow, that is so CHALLENGING!
Notice that 192.168.2.248 number there? that’s MY COMPUTER. it’s a unique address on my network.
in fact, if i were so inclined, i could pull up every instance of a visit to this site from any computer on my network.
I can’t stop shaking my head of the ineptitude of everyone involved here, from the dude posting from his computer at the school he works at, to the “boss” to the IT director to this tool newspaper-pusher failpile that cried over a word that only a nun would blush at.
I will never give a prospective employer a list of my screen-names or passwords.
Do you hear me you freaking douchebags???
What a cavalcade of moronity. Sure the educator was pretty clueless commenting on blog from work, especially using crass language. However, it was Kurt who turned this into a witch hunt. Why not just ignore the comment? Isn’t that the point of moderation? Genewitch hit the nail on the head regarding the IT staff on the school; the douchebaggery should have ended there.
I hope this out-of-work educator finds a great civil rights attorney that can make Kurt’s lack of professionalism and respect for the First Amendment very expensive for the Post-Dispatch.
Wow, what a jerk. No wonder the newspapers are dying.
Thanks for the link to his Flickr page. You really want a laugh? Look at his take on press freedom here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kgreenbaum/2852790661/
Absolutely priceless!
Great blog, Carlos. Just discovered it, due to this Greenbaum thing.
I call it a thing because I’m still not convinced it’s real. A journalist has a responsibility to question information. And all the information in this comes straight from Greenbaum. He claims the guy posted the offensive word twice. There’s no one else saying they even saw it on the blog. Greenbaum claims a colleague deleted it first. Who is the colleague? Greenbaum claims he contacted the school. Greenbaum claims the headmaster said yada yada yada. Greenbaum claims, Greenbaum claims, Greenbaum claims.
All the pertinent facts in this story come straight from Greenbaum. Not a single one has been verified by anyone else. Not only that, it seems no one else is even looking for verification. Everyone is jumping straight to the conclusion that this happened exactly as Greenbaum says.
Just a month ago Greenbaum wrote an article asking what drove people to perpetuate media hoaxes. Maybe he’s pulling his own hoax. His newspaper would have to be in on it. Greenbaum is taking an awful lot of shots over this, and it might be adversely affecting the Dispatch. So those are two reasons why it might not be a hoax. Who would want to go through any of that?
But since not a single thing Greenbaum has said is verified by anyone else, I think the possibility remains that he is trying a grand social media experiment.
Maybe it is a hoax. Doesn’t really matter. Either way his credibility, and probably his employability, as a journalist is shot. At least at any reputable newspaper.
If this is a hoax, this will make the paper look even worse than before.
Now they can just blame Greenbaum for jumping the gun.
But to deliberately lie to your readers?
They might as well just shut down.
I can’t quite muster the same outrage that others have about this issue. Guy posts a word on a comment, it gets deleted, guy posts the comment again. How many times did this happen? After a while, I can see the blogger getting frustrated.
To me, the proper solution was to change the comments from posting immediately to something moderated before posting. Problem could’ve been solved right there.
As for the guy who posted the comment repeatedly from his work computer, he learned a lesson about accountability for his actions. He did something that came back to bite him in the ass. Life is like that.
That would’ve been the end of it, too, if the blogger hadn’t posted about it. That was just stupid. I’m not sure why he thought that was newsworthy of interesting.
In protest, I am blocking @kgreenbaum on Twitter.
These kind of things almost make me reticent to post my blog. (http://iamadick.squarespace.com/) However, I would rather be martyred than back down in fear over what might happen. However, I will not post comments to sites that might come back to haunt me from a work comp.
Mike, this may be a hoax, but look at what happened to Carlos. That wasn’t a hoax and it wasn’t funny.
I don’t get it though … it seems so ridiculous. What of all the spam commenters in the world? We’re going to chase them down and get them fired too?
Come on, if this really happened, it makes Greenbaum look like the biggest pussy who ever lived.
It’s the schools fault, not Greenbaum.
As an admin, if someone does something on my network/website/server that I dont like, I of course should have the right to complain to the admin of the offending network. That’s what ‘whois’ web services are for. The fact that the school’s IT manager “took a shine to the challenge” says a lot about the situation, and the fact that the poster resigned on the spot indicates that there probably was a lot more to the situation than just one mildly offensive web post.
Put another way, if a kid throws a rock at your car, you would probably go tell his parents. If dad beats the hell out of the kid, are you responsible for assault ?
A decent attorney should be able to argue damages caused by Kurt Greenbaum alone and as an agent of his employer.
This worthwhile “teachable moment” should not be squandered.
Ray:
Your analogy is missing the point.
Imagine if the kids threw a dainty wet napkin at your car, twice in a row. If you complain to the kid’s parents and the dad beats the crap out of the kid, are you responsible?
I submit that you are responsible.
I agree with you, genewitch. The situation is more analogous to someone scrawling “WASH ME” (twice) on a car’s dirty windshield. Instead of washing the car, the owner calls the cops.
If Greenbaum does get fired, he’ll probably have a hard time finding work at another mainstream news outlet; it would be a PR nightmare. Maybe WorldNetDaily or The National Review Online – two sites that don’t allow comments at all – are looking for Social Media Editors.
genewitch:
Respectfully, I guess we’ll have to disagree.
Taking my analogy further in your direction, lets say I complained that the kid looked at me funny when I walked by, and dad beat him.
Surely I initiated the situation, but I’m not responsible, the father who chose to beat his child based on my input is responsible
What is so wrong with wanting to protect the children? I wouldn’t want my child attending a school where the employees use words that demean women.
Instead of resigning, he should be given a promotion because he is truly looking out for our children.
I’m with Ray — sounds like there might be more to this. Maybe when the IT dude “took a shine” to the challenge, he discovered that said employee was doing a lot more from work than posting vulgar words on the PD Web site? I’m guessing you wouldn’t resign on the spot for one little issue. Plus, I’m trying to decide how I would feel as a parent if I learned my child’s teacher, or principal, or school nurse, or whatever, were posting words like that on a newspaper Web site from the school computer system. Just a thought.
Ray those are good points, but since this isn’t rock throwing and more like destroying your credibility as a journalist and backstabbing reader confidentiality, this guys going to lose his job and may never work as a journalist again.
Kurt Greenbaum is SUCH a pussy.
Also, poop dick.
If anybody is going to post as “Kurt Greenbaum,” it’s going to be Kurt Greenbaum himself, which is why the last two comments were deleted.
But don’t worry, dude. I’m not going to call your boss.
I believe this man should resign, he’s a danger to the community, this means that he tracts every person that makes a post on his website, he must really need medical help and an psychiatric evaluation,this time he did this next time maybe he could even be a serial killer.
He absolutely needs to resign in order to show the viewers that this is the action of a single rogue employee and does not represent the goals of the publication in general.
I won’t be visiting their website while he’s on the payroll.
If I were the person who posted the word “Pussy” I would simply respond to my boss:
“Yes – I answered his question – I ate a cat once when visiting the Far East and I know its bad but – hey wait – what are you thinking? ”
Ray:
The problem is the Post-Dispatch has a privacy policy:
“We will not share individual user information with third parties unless the user has specifically approved the release of that information. In some cases, however, we may provide information to legal officials as described in “Compliance with Legal Process”
To continue your analogy – this would be you putting up a big sign on your car that says “Hey Kids! Throw some rocks at me, I won’t tell!” and then following home the kid who threw a pebble, while ignoring the ones who threw boulders.
I’m sticking with hoax. I don’t think it makes it even more egregious if this is a hoax. Wouldn’t be the first time a newspaper ever did something like that. They’ll sell it as a grand social media experiment.
The media used to pull hoaxes all the time. Remember Sidd Finch?? War of the Worlds?? Hell, newspapers were full of hoaxes in the 19th century.
If it’s a hoax, you can bet the whole newspaper is in on it. There’s a clue when Greenbaum writes that this is a “teachable moment.” I disagree that it diminishes the paper even further. It just pisses off all those who accepted everything Greenbaum has said as the truth!
Of course, something like this really did happen to you, Carlos, so it’s not all that funny. I think the real lesson here is not to accept what a source says without verifying the facts. I’m stuck on the notion that no one other than Kurt Greenbaum has verified any of the things in his original story. Not even his colleague who supposedly deleted the first comment.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Mike,
I don’t think it’s a hoax. On one of the other forums, I forgot which one, a commenter said she saw the word before it got deleted, which is why I know it was “pussy” and not some other word.
So the word was “pussy”?
I kept reading about “a two-syllable word for the female reproductive organ” and this whole time I was thinking the word was “Greenbaum”.
To be fair, Greenbaum’s editor was the one who closed comments on the post, not Greenbaum.
The following is a comment from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that should be read by everybody in the mainstream media.
I cannot say that this affair comes as much of a surprise, especially given that it involves a “social media” expert at a flagging fourth-estate property. The print media has long been host to such prima donna attitudes in its approach to handling the distribution of information, and this is yet further evidence of the “we know better than you” attitude that all-too-many print workers take in dealing with matters of public discourse.
A visitor left an infantile and most-likely obscene comment, and you decide to play vigilante and get the person fired from their position? Yes. That demonstrates a true understanding of, and reverence for new media. You knew full well what the result of your phone call would be – and it demonstrated *very* clearly the lengths you will go to carry out your own brand of “justice” to whomever is guilty of felony potty-mouth.
While I’ll go so far as to agree that you might not have violated the letter of the company’s privacy policy, you did in fact violate the spirit of it. Your excuse of “it came from a school” is a decidedly transparent attempt to desperately justify your decision to quash what you considered bad behavior.
What would a real blogger…a *real* “social media expert” do in a situation like yours? Would they have gone off on their own personal witch-hunt? Or, might they have taken some time to address the issue in myriad *different* ways? Perhaps a post about the tendency of modern colloquial language to be more profanity-laced than in days gone by? I think you’d have garnered a great deal of support for bemoaning that issue, and at the very least, you could have used the situation to do what you claim to understand about the “social media” – started a real conversation about the issue.
But finally, what is most amusing about all of this is the fact that this situation has clearly underscored what the actual “blogosphere” is all about. You see, the social media you claim to understand so expertly has been utilized primarily by those disenfranchised by the same stolid, uncaring, bloated dinosaur of an institution you now firmly represent – the mainstream media. “Blogs” and so-called “social media commentators” are nothing more than the desperate attempts of an ivory-tower industry to remain relevant as they continue to hemorrhage both cash and subscribers.
I think you and your management are in for *quite* an education in the near future. Hell hath no fury like 4 chan all riled up. Welcome to the internet, Mr. Greenbaum. It ain’t a place for the dainty or weak. And you either get tough enough to deal with the occasional obscenity and prank, or you will quickly be reduced to nothing more than an object of scorn and ridicule.
I certainly hope the rest of the so-called “social media” experts employed by other newspaper organizations are paying attention to this. Because the spirit of Hunter S. Thompson certainly is…and he’s watching you, right now…and he’s most likely calling you very, very bad word.
— Paul Green
7:01 pm November 19th, 2009
I wouldn’t blame the IT guy someone else probably just told him to track it so he did.
I hate the people who don’t believe teachers should have human rights. Obviously the guy didn’t show the ‘children’, the post. So what if the posted that word in a thread, in his spare time, where people were talking about eatting bulls testicles.
Also the guy probably posted it twice(only twice btw) because he probably thought an error ocurred or something, since what he posted was hardly offensive and it didn’t show up right after he posted it.
The guy probably got rather pissed off when confronted, because the reasoning was so absurd and got into the situation where he’d either have to resign or make things worse by arguing about it.
@Mike_Stein – Newspapers and news sites can claim what they want, constrained by libel law and their lawyers, among other factors.
Working for a large paper (and posting under a fictional name), I’ve been on the inside of some big stories and breaking news. Ass-coverage that satisfies everyone above you up to the managing editor means having verifiable sources, data, footage, photos etc.
Jayson Blair is a recent good example of what happens when the verification chain falls apart.
Blogs, on the other hand, get less verification, at least here anyways. There’s usually one or two pairs of eyes to review blog posts, unless it’s a major story.
Less or no verification for blog posts at smaller news outlets like STLOnline might be a possibility. The mildly profane message that the school ex-employee left is probably still in their blog software’s administrative interface. I imagine that Greenbomb’s management have had their look at it.
Really makes me wonder what they thought of it. They can’t be all prudes, can they?
I cannot imagine my management going after a commenter like that. Something like a hack or denial-of-service attack on the website would get their’s and the lawyers’ attention, but comment moderation is handled by automagic software filters and a team of reviewers.
ybobjoe: it wasn’t an “IT guy” it was the IT director. That’s a huge difference there. it wasn’t some nerdy dude with glasses interning at the school while he is in college. This was a professional who said he “took a shine to the” challenge to do something that is less challenging than setting the time properly on a VCR.
Resignation is usually better than getting fired. and if it’s on the spot like that it’s easy to get persuaded it is in your best interest to resign. If it were to happen to me, i’d be sure and say “you may fire me with cause if you wish. just let me know when you have the cause!”
Director = salary.
What I’d like to know is, why is Greenbaum so single-mindedly determined to make this hill the one he dies on? Even once in damage control mode he cannot admit a mistake outright, but instead obliquely refers to poor word choices. It’s not what he did, it’s the way we heard about it that he sees as being the core problem here. He cannot even answer the questions he puts to himself honestly. Would you do it again? Well, I’d ask around the news room a bit more the next time I want to rat out a contributor.
Just won’t admit to a mistake.
Do not fuck with the internet:
http://www.kurtgreenbaumisapussy.com/#
Kurt has put up with a lot on that blog and I’ve enjoyed posting on it, even with the hooders and conservatives doing what they do best. Master-baiting! Tracking someone IS extreme, bragging about someone losing their job is harsh. I imagine my ex-boss did that when I was fired for not going along with a defense contractor scam. CEO got off and sent scapegoat management to prison instead. Now what if this guy had posted much sicker things before and when Kurt saw it was sent from a school he figured this guy shouldn’t be around students? Thrash him for the brag, but take the indignation elsewhere if this guy is a regular perv. Posting at school to keep it off his home PC. The second guessing would commence if he were and molested a student. Track me down. I spoof ten ways from Sunday…or DO I???
A school district doesn’t usually just fire someone for no cause. They can’t afford lawyers to keep a trial going for long.
This has to be a hoax. We have a puff butt bitching about the cops and how his life went sour for ever more when he was misunderstood. You could have had the balls to save it for April 1st dude!
“What is so wrong with wanting to protect the children? I wouldn’t want my child attending a school where the employees use words that demean women.
Instead of resigning, he should be given a promotion because he is truly looking out for our children”
What a moronic comment. As a teacher, I can say that I say “dirty” words. Do I say them to the kids? No. Did this teacher say, “Hey kids…by the way…pussy”? No. Stop acting like the guy is running around molesting children and then slapping them on the George Foreman Grill and eating them.
What Greenbaum did was wrong. He violated an understood trust, plain and simple. He should lose his job or at the absolute very least issue an actual apology instead of the arrogant self righteous back-pedaling.
I’ve had 2 posts, nothing vulgar, pulled at today’s “follow up” on the SPD Blogzone. The posts contained the (public information and available on the SPD website) email addresses of Arnie Robbins, Kevin Mowbray, Tracy Rouch and Mary Junck, who as you know are the “brass” over there along with the Public Relations person. I posted using a fake name and a fake email address. My comments urged people to email them to complain about Greenbaum’s douchery. I commented that I also sent emails to these people.
After my last post was pulled, I called the SPD and actually was put on the phone with a senior editor. He couldn’t give an explanation as to why the posts were pulled other than they weren’t pertinent to the discussion. However, he did spend some time talking to me about the issue and why I cared so much. I got the impression they really seem to think this is just a non-issue that has a handful of very vocal people stirred up. I explained some of my points to him (sorry didn’t get his name) and told him they are just adding fuel to the fire by not having someone in authority over Greenbaum respond. His basis for that was the SPD doesn’t “respond” to stories and news and they didn’t know if they should start now. Also, he pointed out Greenbaum did respond and it just made everyone more angry. You, see they are clearly missing the point of all this. Are they really that thick headed?
The call ended but I couldn’t help thinking my area code and phone number were being vetted and cross checked with my IP address as we spoke. It really is a trust issue and they fail to see that. As of this evening, I’m still employed, my house hasn’t mysteriously burned down and my internet service is still on. I will let you know if I get any letters from my ISP or visits from men in dark glasses in windowless vans.
One more thing, my post about the phone call…..it was pulled too.
Responding to the comment above and others that the person who lost his job is (was) some sort of covert predator or pedophile.
I take no issue with the SPD moderating their blog and setting usage standard. Likewise, I take no issue with the school enforcing their internet/blogging policy. However, it was their responsibility to police their employees, not the SPD and KG. I think KG went too far and his actions were evil and malicious.
However, to those who are acting like a serious threat to the children was uncovered and eliminated I say – you’re ridiculous.
This person made a crass joke. He used a crude word. We don’t know if he used these types of words in the presence of the students. How many people use this and other crude words? It’s quite common today. The “F” Bomb and other crude words are part of the lexicon, especially during rush hour. If you are going to set some sort of standard of employability over the use of crude words, then most of us should quit our jobs right now. Including Kurt and President Obama, both for the use of a certain word that could mean a male donkey. (Oh hell, I forgot, I’m not on the SPD Blogzone – I can say JACKASS)
In accordance with these new standards, an in depth investigation should take place at that school and every employee, student and parent should be forced to reveal what crude words they’ve ever used. Anyone found to use these types of words should be fired or expelled. Parents should have their contracts cancelled without refund. The school should be barred from doing business with any vendor who employs anyone who uses crude words. Better not take any chances.
After all, it’s for the children. We need to protect the children.
Right?
I don’t want my child around grown men who think joking about female genitalia is funny. Teachers need to be mature about these topics. What if he turns out to be a child molester?
Jen, then you better wrap you kid in bubble wrap and keep him in a box because a lot people including women, use that type of language. Better rule out a career in the military, sports, construction, anything mechanical, police, fire, security, TV and movies….
Also, I don’t know you and this really isn’t meant to be personal, but your logic is faulty.
Child molesters are not profiled by their use of crude terms. Also, thanks for profiling grown men as child molesters. We appreciate that jump too. What about grown women who use crude terms. Are they dangerous too? I’ve heard plenty of crude terms and crass jokes come out of female mouths too. If you don’t think so, then you’re just being naive. Please don’t bother responding about how more men then women are child molesters. That’s not the point that I am making.
There is no way that you can make the jump from using that word or telling a crass joke to being a child molester. Adult male + crass joke + crude language = child molester. That’s just ludicrous. But, if you feel that way, then I respect your opinion and your right to raise your children as you see fit. What I really think you are trying to do is make a statement about misogyny and not really crude humor. In that case, I may tend to agree with you. However, I don’t think the jump to this guy is a misogynist is warranted either and I don’t think it makes him a pedophile. Perhaps more facts will come out in the future?
However, in my opinion, the only way to not be a hypocrite yourself is to vet all the people who come into contact with your child and exclude those who use crude words. Let me guess, you home school, right?
Better get going. You’re going to be busy.
I want to amend my 2nd paragraph above as such:
Also, I don’t know you and this really isn’t meant to be personal, but your logic is faulty. Greenbaum never professed to be acting on the basis of protecting children. In fact, he seemed more upset that the poster dared to tread on his territory and challenge his superiority. The fact this was coming from a school and the taboo, lascivious nature of it seemed to excite him and fuel his power trip knowing the uproar this would cause and that someone -student/faculty/staff- would surely be punished. In my opinion, he was tyring to punish someone, not protect someone. I highly doubt he would have had the same response to his tattle tale phone call if he traced the comment back to say a welding shop or a local garage or some other place where crude language wouldn’t be so much of an issue. (my apologies to welders and mechanics)
So Greenbaum doesn’t approve of foul language, and apparently neither does “Jen”. So I guess neither of them would approve of the motherf*** bomb either, right? Well, in Greenbaum’s case – wrong. Just take a look at what he thought it was alright for “him” to post on his blog site.
Warning for Jen and her ilk, even Greenbaum warns the language is “not for little ears”. So much for Greenbaum’s integrity and credibility.
http://www.igreenbaum.com/2009/09/yes-bloggers-we-can-laugh-at-ourselves/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+igreenbaum+%28STL+Social+Media+Guy%29
To Jake:
If you’re worried about them getting your Caller ID I have one work for you, Skype.
VOIP from any computer or Wi-Fi enabled mobile. Free calls to any phone in North America for $3 a month!
http://www.skype.com/
Oops. “work” = “word”
Thanks, Doug. I was really being somewhat sarcastic. Anyway, the home phone is not in my name, so it will be funny if my other half gets snatched at work and thrown into the van….lol. But that Skype thingy looks good. I will have to check that out.
I’ve seen elsewhere that it was not just the word “pussy.” Here’s what’s alleged to be the full comment:
“I have eaten many different animals (or at least parts of them), including rattlesnake, crocodile, alligator, iguana,
turtle, and many different molluscs, arthropods, echinoids, and whatnot from sea or river. I have also eaten squirrel,
bear, dog, and cat. So, I can say I have eaten pussy, and you can interpret or misinterpret it any way you want. Oh,
and woof-woof, too.”
http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2009/Nov/216
“Jen
What if he turns out to be a child molester?”
In terms of argument that is what is known as a “straw man” statement, i.e. push out something totally ridiculous that bears little or no relation to the original point and try to make the argument about your “straw man” rather than the real man.
It’s a technique Fox News uses all the time. Unfortunately the only people who are fooled by it are the sort who believe that Fox News really is “fair and balanced”.
However give Fox News credit for knowing their audience. All the demographic information available on the Republican Party shows that it’s core base is now pretty much restricted to the poorly educated, the low income groups and religious fundamentalists. There are some exceptions of course but in advertising demographic terms the Republicans occupy the lowest C, D and E territory. So expecting informed and intelligent debate from their supporters is probably an exercise in futility.
Quite symmetric really. The “Red States” are largely populated by rednecks.
(Apologies for a lengthy post, but I think it’s directly on topic)
Does he need to resign? I’d say it was a pretty clear cut case of “Yes. Immediately. Before his employers fire him – if they have any ethics at all” (This last may be questionable however – see this clip http://www.kmov.com/video/featured-videos/Man-fired-over-Post-Dispatch-Web-posting-70667577.html)
However make up your own mind, here is a post copied from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch site ( http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/11/follow-up-the-case-of-the-vulgar-comment-and-the-school/ ) which outlines some of the ethics rules Greenbaum himself recognizes he should live by. Does anyone think he did?
“Greenbaum has some bookmarks saved on delicious. One of them is to the Society of Professional Journalists: Code of Ethics. His description of the bookmark is “Hard to go wrong with the code of ethics of SPJ. It pretty much spells out the ethical issues — and it keeps it short and to the point.”
Below are some relevant extracts.
Preamble
Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues. Conscientious journalists from all media and specialties strive to serve the public with thoroughness and honesty. Professional integrity is the cornerstone of a journalist’s credibility. Members of the Society share a dedication to ethical behavior and adopt this code to declare the Society’s principles and standards of practice.
Seek Truth and Report It
Journalists should be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.
Journalists should:
— Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.
— Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.
…
— Make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context.
….
— Tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience boldly, even when it is unpopular to do so.
— Examine their own cultural values and avoid imposing those values on others.
— Avoid stereotyping by race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, geography, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance or social status.
— Support the open exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
— Give voice to the voiceless; official and unofficial sources of information can be equally valid.
— Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.
…
Minimize Harm
Ethical journalists treat sources, subjects and colleagues as human beings deserving of respect.
Journalists should:
— Show compassion for those who may be affected adversely by news coverage. Use special sensitivity when dealing with children and inexperienced sources or subjects.
— Be sensitive when seeking or using interviews or photographs of those affected by tragedy or grief.
— Recognize that gathering and reporting information may cause harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance.
— Recognize that private people have a greater right to control information about themselves than do public officials and others who seek power, influence or attention. Only an overriding public need can justify intrusion into anyone’s privacy.
— Show good taste. Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity.
— Be cautious about identifying juvenile suspects or victims of sex crimes.
— Be judicious about naming criminal suspects before the formal filing of charges.
— Balance a criminal suspect’s fair trial rights with the public’s right to be informed.
……
Be Accountable
Journalists are accountable to their readers, listeners, viewers and each other.
Journalists should:
— Clarify and explain news coverage and invite dialogue with the public over journalistic conduct.
— Encourage the public to voice grievances against the news media.
— Admit mistakes and correct them promptly.
— Expose unethical practices of journalists and the news media.
— Abide by the same high standards to which they hold others.
The SPJ Code of Ethics is voluntarily embraced by thousands of
writers, editors and other news professionals. The present version of
the code was adopted by the 1996 SPJ National Convention, after months
of study and debate among the Society’s members.
So:
Would Greenbaum care to explain his views on how he met the Code of Ethics he subscribes to in this case?
Is the inevitable deletion of this post in accordance with the code of ethics above, particularly the section on accountability.
Are he, and his management, aware that I am just an amateur bystander who happens to be outraged by his conduct in this matter but that professional lawyers and researchers can, and probably will, produce reams of similar relevant information?
cc: To file”
aDeled http://j8Jw83mNs0doPpsqvjrcns5.info
Carlos said “destroying the newspaper’s credibility at a time when newspapers need to hang on to every ounce of credibility they have.”
Carlos – that would be assuming that the P-D ever had any credibility to begin with. If they did, they lost it at least 30 years ago.
Pussy.