Photography is Not a Crime

82 responses so far ↓

• 1 Paul // Jul 29, 2009 at 1:48 PM

  First of all, if in the backyard, not public intoxication. Furthermore, he can argue that the police did not have probable cause, as they did not perform ANY tests to ascertain level of intoxication. Finally, most statutes regarding noise complaints are challangable, at least in NY State, on lack of valid measurements as to the amount of noise. People v. Smith, et.al.

• 2 Rob Molecule // Jul 29, 2009 at 2:16 PM

  Does anyone else remember the Mountie from the WWF in the 80′s? He dressed as a Canadian Mountie and would carry a cattle prod to the ring and use it on his opponents. This was an easy way to elicit boos from the audience. This was a comical character that worked great in wrestling. I never thought it would become real life. Any pretense of TASERs being used as a substitute for deadly force seems to be gone, and it’s really just sickening.

  Also, you have a typo in the headline.

• 3 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 3:07 PM

  Prince William County Police hire outside consultant to improve hiring policy.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE&feature=related

• 4 monarga // Jul 29, 2009 at 3:24 PM

  This is why I shrug my shoulders at stories where cops are killed.

• 5 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 3:30 PM

  I’m waiting for feedback from the Leo sympathizers, but I may have to leave for a while. I need to to delete all my video of my backyard parties. I’m not sure what the statute of limitations is on backyard drunkenness. I could be in big trouble.

• 6 10-8 // Jul 29, 2009 at 3:52 PM

  This is why I shrug my shoulders at stories where cops are killed.

  Aren’t you just special. Now you feel like you’ve taken some moral high ground with that little bon mot.

  Here’s a news flash. Cops who carry tasers are tasered themselves as part of their training. I’ve been tasered many times. It’s no big deal. It’s a far cry from being murdered.

  So go ahead and shrug your pathetic shoulders. They’re the only thing holding up your ignorant empty head.

• 7 genewitch // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:06 PM

  10-8: And soldiers are gassed and given anthrax as part of their training. Should we allow them to use mustard gas while they’re out and about in the world just because they’ve been exposed?

  i mean while we’re just talking out of our asses here i figured i’d ask you a stupid question.

• 8 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:36 PM

  I tried to get Stanley Harlan on the phone about “the no big deal” tasers. But, he was still dead.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP_KbYBNEY

• 9 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM

  Roberto, Roberto are you still dead?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dj_kQFjnq8&feature=related

• 10 Ms Calabaza // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:43 PM

  These tasers are being a bit overused, I suspect … One thing Carlos, Prince William County is about an hour and a half away from where I live. It is going through big challenges because of the growth and changes in population and the lack of infrastructure to accommodate everyone. Crime has gone up astronomically in the past decade and this area was once all beautiful farmland. They have a very big gang problem (MS-13) and the old-timers in the area are at their wit’s end. This story sounds like bad judgment on the part of law enforcement but we don’t know the facts yet. I like to be fair though and PWC Police are really overwhelmed and for the most part are doing their best.

  Monarga, I have to say this … that’s a pretty callous and cruel statement. I wonder whom you would call if someone were hurting your loved ones …

• 11 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:48 PM

  Well, at least, this 15 year old deserved to die by taser.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m01Q6RIApx0&feature=related

• 12 Simon Jester // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:49 PM

  Steveo,

  How is Robert Dziekański these days? Is he still dead?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP_KbYBNEY

• 13 Simon Jester // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:50 PM

  And Robert Mitchell? How is he these days?

  http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/28/michigan.taser.death/index.html

• 14 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 4:55 PM

  I’d keep posting these but there are more than three hundred of them. But when police kill these people. It’s not murder, is it10-8?

  let’s see, just on this page police have executed more people by taser than the State of California in the last 15 years.

• 15 discarted // Jul 29, 2009 at 5:11 PM

  10-8

  Aren’t you guys only tasered in the back under controlled circumstances while being held up by your buddies?

  Maybe your training should also include being tased in the face, chest, stomach, genitals, and anus.

  And then once your body flexes and goes rigid and you lose control of yourself your body should be allowed to slam face first into the concrete after being tased.

  Maybe at that point this type of training will finally knock a little bit of sense into you and your buddies.

• 16 LibertyTiger // Jul 29, 2009 at 5:37 PM

  FYI, 10-8 is police code for “on duty.” Must be nice to get a paycheck while trolling blogs.

  I’ve seen this happen locally. The police get publicly embarrassed for their mistreatment of immigrants, so they retaliate by calling in ICE. My very good friend, Suzanne McHenry is a liberty activist who, after being maliciously charged with child abuse, is currently being deported. After the prosecution’s star witness recanted and the evidence against her was discredited, AR officials then called in immigration who found she had violated an immigration rule two years ago. She awaits deportation to the UK despite the fact she has a husband and three children who are American citizens.

• 17 R // Jul 29, 2009 at 6:06 PM

  Here’s a news flash. Cops who carry tasers are tasered themselves as part of their training. I’ve been tasered many times. It’s no big deal.

  Wait… how is that a “news flash”? I’d say plenty of us here already know it.

  And furthermore, how is that relevant? 1 – you were tased in controlled circumstances, no doubt, no emotions or adrenaline running high. 2 – Police officers may get tased without ill effects, but so what? They’re not a representative cross-section of the population in terms of health. So to transfer that to the population as a whole is either stupid or deliberately deceitful on your part.

• 18 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 6:11 PM

  I’m sorry, I promise this is the last one. The Leos tried to kill this ex-marine sgt. war hero with tasers, but it didn’t work so they put 3 .40 caliber rounds in his chest. As of today, the last I checked, Derek Hale is still dead.

  http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w10.html

• 19 Darwin // Jul 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM

  “Good neighbors keep their noise to themselves.”

  “Polluting the commons is not a right. Our effort to reduce noise pollution is similar to other efforts to reduce pollution and reassert our collective stewardship over the commons. Whether the issue is second-hand smoke, elevated mercury levels, or ground level ozone, the strategy is to protect the environment and our health and well-being by creating an ethic of the commons.

  “In seeking to advance an ethic of the commons, we first need to recognize that competing uses that exclude other uses of the commons or damaging uses that detract from other uses are not wise uses of a public good. The commons should be used in as many non-competing, non-damaging ways as possible. Noise, like many other pollutants, precludes many enjoyable uses of the commons and is not a wise use of the commons: loud late night parties, early morning garbage pick-up, or aircraft take-offs trump sleeping, reading, working, or listening to music.”

  http://www.nonoise.org/

  I say, keep tazing ‘em if they won’t turn down the crap.

  And if you don’t turn it down after being nicely asked by Officer Friendly….earn yourself a Darwin Award.

• 20 steveo // Jul 29, 2009 at 6:41 PM

  According to Amnesty International, Tasers killed 334 people as of December, 2008.

• 21 Zack S // Jul 29, 2009 at 7:27 PM

  I posted some links a while back of different police officers suing because they were hurt and seriously injured during the controlled taser ‘training’.

• 22 SPH // Jul 29, 2009 at 7:38 PM

  Wow Darwin- so my kids birthday party during the day during in my backyard gets a little loud for you and I deserve to be tased? your a winner! It was broad day light. This wasn’t at night, this wasn’t disturbing the peace.

• 23 EdinTally // Jul 29, 2009 at 8:07 PM

  OFFICIAL POLICE PROCEDURE

  Person of Color: Check
  Less than Affluent Neighborhood: Check
  Taser Charged: Check

  I’m not seeing the problem with this incident. All the requirements were met by the officers before Tasing the criminal.

• 24 Darwin // Jul 29, 2009 at 9:50 PM

  SPH, if you have your music loud enough that Officer Friendly arrives and asks you to turn it down half a dozen times, then go ahead and earn yourself a Darwin Award by ignoring his request to not be rude to your neighbors.

  Yeah, I am a winner, because I take into account my neighbor’s right to quiet enjoyment of their property.

  Ol’ Grandad, who apparently had too much Ol’ Granddad, like most drunks, was loud and obnoxious.

• 25 Michaelk42 // Jul 29, 2009 at 10:36 PM

  @SPH

  Never mind Darwin, if you look at its other comments you’ll see it’s just trolling. He/she/it won’t add anything to the conversation and has proven to be nothing but a time sink.

• 26 Darwin // Jul 30, 2009 at 12:49 AM

  Michaelk42, do you not care about your neighbor’s right to quiet enjoyment of their property?

  It’s amazing how weak minds here try to hide from the light by squealing “troll.”

  Whatever. I’ve got the light, you’re the scurrying cockroach who can’t address what really happened in this situation:

  1. Loud, obnoxious music from drunk neighbors.

  2. Officer Friendly asks them to turn it down SIX times.

  I bet you’d be calling the cops on these bad neighbors too. Just say it with me: “Tase ‘em bro!”

• 27 NYCPhotorights // Jul 30, 2009 at 1:30 AM

  Those who say that tasers are ok because police officers use them on themselves is delusional. If a consumer product caused as many deaths as a taser did you can be sure that legislators would be calling for a recall and full ban on said product. Police officers are in generally good health and good physical condition and can withstand a taser. The general population is NOT. People on the street suffer from high blood pressure, various heart conditions, breathing problems, etc. and would be killed the second they are tased. A taser is nothing more than a torture and murder weapon.

  I guess people like Darwin advocate the genocide of anyone who violates even the most obscure law. Most people do not even realize that noise ordinances apply during the day – in fact most municipal noise ordinances take effect after 10pm. I guess ignorance of the law is cause to execute the perp.

• 28 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 2:19 AM

  in my city, you can be arrested for public intoxication as long as you are in view of the public. so i do believe that was a valid charge.

  now as for resisting arrest, our use of force policy dictates that if anyone resists lawful arrest by pulling away then a taser may be used to subdue the arrestee.

  now about the woman in the blue shirt next to the man the police were surrounding.. if i were the one attempting to arrest him and she was preventing me from making a lawful arrest, then i would taser her too as well as bring her to jail. it doesn’t matter if she was pregnant or not. the only determining factor would be how many officers were present and how hard she was fighting.

  given what i saw above, there were plenty of officers around and they could’ve subdued her without tasing her. i’ve seen officers become dependent with their tasers and use it every chance they get because they don’t want to fight anymore. by the way, it’s mainly the older ones from my experience that use the tasers more often.

  all in all, the video from above did not show the entire event in it’s entirety. it had a few shots here and there but nothing seemed to be very conclusive from my point of view.

  as for the noise ordinance violation.. if you refuse once, i’m going to take you in. you can have your freedom of expression but if others don’t want to hear it… i’m sure you can guess the rest. and since they live next door and can’t get away from it.. you’re pretty much alienating everyone that lives around you.

  as for an immigration issue, i believe that if you don’t have any documentation that shows you’re allowed to be in this country then you should be deported.

• 29 xdamousex // Jul 30, 2009 at 2:24 AM

  It’s amazing how weak minds here try to hide from the light by squealing “troll.”

  Because you are a troll. You come in here looking for a reaction rather than actually contributing anything.

  If anyone deserves a good tasing, it’s assh**es like you.

• 30 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:29 AM

  10-8

  How many times have you been pregnant-dumbass???

• 31 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:54 AM

  Darwin

  I think you meant to say “Seis veces”- FIFY

• 32 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:56 AM

  The reason that tasers were deployed is because it’s too hard for Prince William County cops to shoot chihuahuas-black labs are more their specialty.

• 33 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:23 AM

  I’m not against ordinances dealing with disorderly conduct or noise per se, but there has to be some objective standard and common sense interpretations being made.

  For example, I was in downtown Nashville the other day. I was walking between The Hardrock Cafe and a parking lot to retrieve my umbrella. A family of four was walking ahead of me and a street hustler or beggar (whatever) tried to catch their teenage boy’s attention. He was unsuccessful and I used them for cover on my way by.

  On my way back a rather tall bouncer had a knife out and was threatening to cut the hustler if he didn’t get the hell out of in front of his club. The bouncer was chasing him around and causing quite a commotion. Obviously a disorderly conduct ordinance might be a good way to keep tourists from being harrassed. On someone’s private property? Not so much.

  After lunch my family and I were walking around and we met a guy who called himself “Guitar Gary”. He’s got a cheap strat, a battery powered amp and some milk crates to sit on while he plays. That’s how he pays for his hotel room every night, God willing.

  I gave him a few bucks and he let me sit down and play a few licks, which was pretty cool.

  He told me that cops try and get him two ways: Being too close to the building and the noise ordinance. He found some people who let him sit out front of their store so he’s fine on that front. He looked up the noise ordinance and it says you have to be exceeding 85 decibels to be in violation so there’s no way he could be close to that with his little amp. If cops aren’t measuring the decibels then they are strictly harrassing people.

• 34 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:45 AM

  Aaron

  I was under the impression that they tacked on the drunk in public to help justify the tasing. I’m sure you would never pile on charges or anything-right?

  So what is the procedure for noise ordinance violations? Is this another case of contempt of cop? Turn it down cause we said so? If I paint my house pink it might be irritating but it’s not neccessarily illegal.

  Aaron…Aaron…this name is Jewish-yes??? You have………papers?

• 35 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 7:59 AM

  generally people in my city only get arrested for public intoxication because they’re very drunk in public and when that’s the case they’re only held until they sober up.. and then they’re released without having to pay to get out.

  being drunk in public should never be a reason to get tased. that is, unless they’re resisting arrest or is about to harm themselves or others. you have more of a chance of living if i shoot you with a taser than being shot with my .45. personally, i’d rather use my taser.

  i don’t just “pile on” charges. if someone is breaking the law, then every law that they break will be on the affidavit i sign. if they have alcohol on their breath but can still function perfectly well, then they will not be charged with public drunk by me.

  if you’re trying to sleep at night but your next door neighbor is having a party with loud music, i’m going to show up and order them to turn it down to the acceptable noise level in accordance with the law.

  in my city from 0700 – 2100 the lawful noise level is 65db and lower. from 2101 0 0659 the lawful noise level is 60db. db meaning decibals. but that’s just for the residential areas of the city.

  before you ask again, yes, i have a noise decibal meter that i use in order to uphold the ordinance. otherwise i wouldn’t in good conscience tell someone to turn the music down when i don’t know the appropriate level.

  if i go to their house and they turn it down but then turn it back up when i leave, then i’m going back to their house and i’m going to arrest them.

  i’m not going to go back to their house and say “now, i told you to turn it down once, don’t make me come back and tell you to turn it down again.”

  that accomplishes nothing and you’re still awake. so not only will i charge them with violating the noise ordinance, i’m also going to charge them with disobeying a lawful command.

  if everyone is compliant and cooperative then no one needs to go to jail. there are some people that want to be arrested in front of their family/friends/kids whatever just to attempt to prove a point. but in the end, they just want to fight.

  now for your last question. i’m not aware of any jewish ancestry within my bloodline. and i do have “papers” that say i was born in texarkana texas.

• 36 R // Jul 30, 2009 at 8:38 AM

  Aaron:

  Do you define drinking in one’s own backyard as being “drunk in public?

• 37 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 8:48 AM

  if you read one of my earlier posts you can plainly see that i stated:

  “in my city, you can be arrested for public intoxication as long as you are in view of the public.”

  while also stating:

  “if they have alcohol on their breath but can still function perfectly well, then they will not be charged with public drunk by me.”

  however i’m not going to enter someone’s back yard because i see them drinking alcohol to test their sobriety.

  if i’m in their back yard because i was called there for a reason and they’re intoxicated being uncooperative, then that’s a different story.

• 38 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 8:53 AM

  perhaps i should’ve been more specific. i should have said you can be arrested for public intoxication as long as you are “intoxicated” in view of the public.

  i can see how that statement could’ve been perceived otherwise.

• 39 NYCPhotorights // Jul 30, 2009 at 11:09 AM

  I propose a law that reads: If a pregnant woman loses the baby as a result of being tased and the person using the taser knew or had reason to know she was pregnant then he should be charged with first degree murder. That will stop the use of tasers on pregnant women!

• 40 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 11:46 AM

  Only say four things to Leos, Aaron is a prime example. Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? I need to speak with my lawyer. I don’t consent to any searches. Obviously, the 4th amendment doesn’t exist in his mind or in the minds of the people who wrote the city ordinance.

• 41 Rob Molecule // Jul 30, 2009 at 11:50 AM

  “being drunk in public should never be a reason to get tased. that is, unless they’re resisting arrest or is about to harm themselves or others. you have more of a chance of living if i shoot you with a taser than being shot with my .45. personally, i’d rather use my taser.”

  So if you didn’t have a taser, you would shoot somebody with your .45 if they were resisting arrest?

• 42 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 11:50 AM

  Once I had a Leo come to my house for a noise complaint. I opened my window a little bit and talked to him. He said they got a noise complaint. I asked him to get out his meter and tell me how high the db was. he went to his car to get the meter and the noise was about 3 db over. We turned it down 3 db. I couldn’t tell the difference. He never came in my home and then he left. Big deal. I think I was intoxicated too.

• 43 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 12:28 PM

  This noise stuff is really interesting. I’ve been researching our ordinance and the Leo has to go to the property line to get a measurement and then he has to go to the complainer, whoever that was to get a reading from their porch.
  ( Many complainers must not like any noise at all) Doing all this first, then the Leo can come to the home and inform the owner that the noise level is so many Db over the limit and that the owner or occupant has to lower the noise limit to the proper db and the Leo has to give the occupant at least 15 minutes to comply and the Leo has to actually leave and get another call from the complainer.

  If the property owner doesn’t comply the Leo can come back and write a citation and ask again for the occupant, owner to please comply.

  Ordinance doesn’t say anything about ID production, tasing, arresting, or violating 4th amendment rights of the castle.

• 44 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM

  steveo, if you were under arrest it wouldn’t matter if you didn’t consent to a search. that right would be revoked as soon as the handcuffs were placed on you.

  if you’re under arrest, you’re going to be searched no matter what. it’s called “search incident to arrest.”

  rob, i would only shoot someone with my .45 in a life and death situation. if my life or someone else’s life depended on it then yes, i would.

  it seems that a lot of you are attempting to place words into my mouth. it’s funny how people can misconstrue my previous posts into their own mis-guided interpretations.

  if someone was resisting arrest with a knife then YES, i would use my .45. use some common sense. if someone was resisting arrest with no weapons and just wanted to fist-fight me, then NO, i would NOT use my .45.

  come on now. first of all i would use an intermediate weapon (ie: OC spray, Asp, Taser) in that order. that is, unless a weapon was produced.

  all those are tools are used in order to gain compliance. i’m not going to let you hurt me, but i’m still going to go through the motions to secure the arrest with any possible way to prevent the other person from getting hurt as well.

  i’m not going tit-for-tat with anyone. i will always use the necessary force needed to overcome an opponent.

  btw steveo, i’ve got something for you :

  Amendment IV

  The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  probable cause – facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime is, has, or is about to be committed.

  violating a noise ordinance (verified with a decibal meter) is a crime. people who commit crimes go to jail. people who go to jail get searched.

  i wouldn’t expect you to fully understand because you don’t know the first thing about being a police officer. but it’s okay. i’m just glad i’m here to enlighten you.

• 45 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 12:40 PM

  steveo, that may be true.. where you live. not all city ordinances are the same.

  city ordinances can be more stringent than their state or federal laws.

  i’ll give you an example:a state law about disorderly conduct profanity may say it’s illegal to use profane language in the presence of 5 or more people on any city street, public place, or business.

  a city ordinance, again, can be more stringent(more harsh) by saying : it’s illegal to use profane language in the presence of 2 or more people on any city street, public place, or business.

  there is also “disorderly conduct – failure to comply with a lawful order.” you don’t turn it down, you go to jail. it’s as simple as that.

• 46 Michaelk42 // Jul 30, 2009 at 12:45 PM

  Actually, I think Aaron is being pretty reasonable, really.

  Let’s not forget that this isn’t a case of police going after someone just on their own, for whatever reason. The underlying initial fail in a noise complaint has to do with neighbors that can’t work it out themselves.

  So it’s likely that the neighbor calling in the complaint is a jerk and can’t just ask the people they live next to to turn it down on their own… or the loud neighbor is too much a jerk to do so if asked… or possibly come combination of the two. (Or maybe they’re just really antisocial people all around.)

  But I’m guessing the cops don’t even want to be there in the first place.

  In most cases that I’m familiar with, anyway.

  But here we have what looks like an inordinate number of officers showing up for a simple noise complaint… and if you end up letting things escalate until you really need to TASER a seemingly compliant old guy and pregnant woman, you have messed up somewhere along the line.

• 47 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 12:58 PM

  Ok, Aaron, I’ll bite. What were the measurements from Mr. Rodriquez’s property line and what were the measurements from the complainer’s property? No mention of that in the reports, But you probably know.

• 48 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 1:02 PM

  Aaron #45

  “city ordinances can be more stringent than their state or federal laws.”

  Is the 4th amendment a Federal Law or a local ordinance where you live?

• 49 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 1:04 PM

  One of the really big problems here is that the Rodriquez family made the mistake of actually believing that the Leos were looking out for their best interests. Why they didn’t get that camera on this from start to finish is the real tragedy.

• 50 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 1:08 PM

  And, uh, by the way, Aaron, tell us what municipality you live in, I live in Sarasota, Fl. I’ll look up your noise ordinance and post it here.

• 51 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 1:16 PM

  And, uh, why didn’t the Leos arrest him for the noise problem? Usually they like to pile on the charges especially when they taze pregnant 4 ft tall women.

• 52 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 1:38 PM

  “a city ordinance, again, can be more stringent(more harsh) by saying : it’s illegal to use profane language in the presence of 2 or more people on any city street, public place, or business.”

  Where Aaron lives they don’t have the 1st Amendment, either.

  The defendant sang “Fxxk the Police.” Her singing could be heard across the street where adults and children were gathering. The record was devoid of any evidence that the singing evoked a response tending to inflict injury or incite an immediate breach of the peace. While the appellate court notes the singing to be annoying, it did not breach the peace. Furthermore, the defendant’s conduct fell within the protections of the First Amendment. K.Y.E. v. State, 557 So.2d 956 (Fla. 1st DCA 1990).

• 53 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:16 PM

  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances except for the city ordinances where Aaron lives.

• 54 NYCPhotorights // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:33 PM

  I do see some humor in all of this – it seems some municipalities have nothing better to do than investigate noise complaints. Reminded me of the time that a neighbor filed a complaint about me because a contractor was installing an air conditioner in my house. They thought that I was using day labor but that is another story – in fact the job was being done by a nationwide major appliance retail chain…

  First the neighbor came to my door to complain that the job started too early (8am) but when I told them the name of the store and I thought they should know the law – they backed off. Months later I read online that a noise complaint had been filed against my property. it was noted that an inspector passed by SIX MONTHS LATER and did not notice any noise so he closed the case…

• 55 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:39 PM

  NYCP #54

  I think your community should apply for some stimulus money, so that they can hire more noise inspectors.

• 56 Robert // Jul 30, 2009 at 3:47 PM

  I study military history, and collect weapons.
  I didn’t know that there were any police precincts that issued .45 caliber firearms as a standard sidearm in the US.
  I know it’s still a common sidearm for SWAT and other related; but, I thought that it was decided that the .45 ACP/GAP was just too much recoil for the average officer to handle effectively.

• 57 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:24 PM

  Robert, how big a hole will it put in someone’s chest?

• 58 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:30 PM

  A Big atta boy, goes to Lt. Matthew Bell of the Plain City Sheriff Department. Even though Lt. Bell followed this out of control 7 year old driver who was fleeing from custody, Lt. Bell didn’t tackle, whack, pepper spray, or taze the alleged perpetrator. Lt. Bell didn’t even arrest the little guy. What’s up with that?

  This 7 year old was just as tall as the pregnant mom who got tazed at the Rodriguez baptism party for being noisy. I think this Plain City incident might go into the dereliction of duty file for most of the Leo sympathizers on this site.

  http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=7341904

• 59 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:44 PM

  http://www.wbbm780.com/Police-pull-back-on-new-deadly-force-policy/4906259

  Damn, I just cancelled my trip to Chicago, I guess I can reinstate it now. Chicago police didn’t ck with the city council.

• 60 Michaelk42 // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:47 PM

  @steveo

  I saw that on CNN earlier today. Watching the car stop and then seeing the kid make a break for the garage is hilarious.

• 61 Supernintendo Chalmers // Jul 30, 2009 at 4:58 PM

  they tased a pregnant woman? that is indeed a new low.

• 62 genewitch // Jul 30, 2009 at 5:01 PM

  Aaron: I can’t seem to find a state that says that someone’s backyard constitutes “public” as it pertains to “public intoxication” – Perhaps you can shine some light on this example of your anecdotal evidence?

• 63 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 5:27 PM

  Aaron

  You seem like a fairly reasonable sort in both your response and actions so I will commend you for that.

  Are you city or county? Just my opinion but I tend to think county people are easier to get along with-in my experience. When I was much younger a friend of mine and I were stopped out in the boonies. We were spotlighting for coyotes or other varmits and the game warden and deputies searched us and checked over my truck-asked me about the dog hair on my seats. With the calibers we were using it was obvious we weren’t poaching so they just warned us about the spotlight.

  So do you measure the db from the property line or what?

  If someone refuses to open the door-then what?

  I could probably have my wife arrested for snoring but that’s a side issue.

  In closing my advice would be, Jewish or not, don’t throw your rod down.

• 64 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 5:34 PM

  Steveo

  I suppose the eq settings on your PA could have a lot to do with compliance with the ordinance. It seems likely you can feel the bass without being over the limit.

• 65 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 5:41 PM

  I think in the case of the pregnant lady who was tased for interfering with the officers, she broke a new ordinance called “Cock-blocking”.

• 66 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 6:42 PM

  I’m not a music guy, so I really don’t know this stuff but the ordinance only refers to dba. Where I live its max 75 until 10pm and 65 after 10pm until 7am. I looked up the cost of these measuring devices and they go from 50 bucks to over 1000. I don’t think the Leos are going to invest alot of money in these measuring devices, because the bass isn’t mentioned in the ordinance. I watch the arrests most days because I have a blog on victimless crimes and I have never seen someone arrested for violation of noise ordinance. I have seen citations given out to drivers, but never an arrest.

• 67 Aaron // Jul 30, 2009 at 8:12 PM

  pinandpuller, i work for a city. we also measure from the property line of the complainant.

  if someone refuses to open the door but turns the music down, then we leave. if they refused to turn it down and refuse to open the door then we get a warrant from a judge.

  steveo#53 people have freedom of speech.. but you must take into consideration that not everyone wants to hear it. that’s also why almost every city in this country requires people to aquire a permit to be able to protest.

  you can get a permit from city hall where it restricts what times you may protest and restricts the use of profane language. you just seem to have a problem with law enforcement and have probably been on the wrong end of the law. i see it all the time. everyone hates us until we’re needed.

  genewich#62 i thought i was clear. you can be in your back yard and still be in the view of the public. even though that’s how the ordinance reads(about being in view of the public) doesn’t mean i would enter their yard to find out. if i happened to be there for some other reason that would be different.

  i thought i explained this earlier?

• 68 Carlos Miller // Jul 30, 2009 at 8:47 PM

  Aaron,

  While it’s easy to write us off as people who hate cops, I think most of us just hate it when cops don’t respect our rights.

  Most of us grew up with the mentality that cops were there to help us. That they are genuinely good people.

  And along the way, we might have had some experiences that make us think otherwise.

  It’s true that cops are only human, so we can’t expect them to be anything more.

  But we do expect them to abide by the law and respect the oath they took.

  From my experience, there seems to a huge “us vs them” mentality with police officers.

  Another cop who posts here tells us he is the sheepdog and we’re all sheep who don’t know any better, so we must do as police say at all times.

  You’re not going to win everybody over with that attitude. Especially the people who read this site.

  I believe that police are suffering from a serious lack of credibility lately because of all the stories and videos that the internet allows us to share.

  Even me, who has covered law enforcement for newspapers in various cities, including Phoenix and Southern California, have become pretty jaded by these continuous stories and videos.

  So I believe police departments really need to take a hard look at themselves to change the impression they are presenting.

  We may be stubborn but we’re not criminals. Some of my supporters are even ex-cops.

  But it has gotten to the point where we don’t trust cops. And that number of people is growing every day because of these stories.

  And you might blame people like me for presenting these stories, but I’m only the messenger.

  The problem needs to be addressed from within the department.

  But until that happens, people like us will continue to criticize these abuses.

  And that doesn’t make your job any easier.

• 69 Anonymouse // Jul 30, 2009 at 9:20 PM

  so what happens to the fetus when a pregnant woman is tased?

• 70 steveo // Jul 30, 2009 at 10:16 PM

  Read Carlos’ post on the beating of an immigrant in Sarasota by a Leo caught on a police camera.

  The city manager and the mayor said that it is of vital importance that the people of the city and county cooperate with law enforcement.

  That is why they suspended the officers and the police chief.

  They said, ” If we lose the trust of the citizens, we may as well close up shop.” Incidents like this make people extremely distrustful of law enforcement at all socio-economic levels.

  We don’t hate police. We just want you to be as mindful of our rights, as you are of your own and don’t lie.

• 71 Pinandpuller // Jul 30, 2009 at 10:59 PM

  Anonymouse

  I’d say an uncontrolled fall to the ground would be the worst aspect of tasing a pregnant woman. I suppose it depends on what point in the pregnancy it occured and where the barbs stick. Maybe we should ask a wise Latina about it.

• 72 Spokker // Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 AM

  This is certainly a disturbing incident, but I wonder if these high-profile incidents, where the officer involved should be fired and possibly charged with assault, hurt other officers who are pretty damn good at their jobs.

  I say that because I am a young Hispanic male who lives in a not-so-nice city, and the cops I see seem like pretty down to Earth guys and are always friendly to me. I mean, I’ve never felt compelled to scream, “Fuck da police” or anything.

  So while these incidents should be investigated fully, I wonder how prevalent it is because most cops I see are pretty cool.

• 73 Spokker // Jul 31, 2009 at 2:05 AM

  And while I absolutely enjoy reading Carlos’ blog, I bet if you read nothing but abusive cop stories you’d become pretty jaded. I think you could find just as many stories and videos of people fucking up and the cops being completely in the right.

• 74 Mathemagician // Jul 31, 2009 at 5:50 AM

  The law enforcement profession does not necessarily attract the brightest of people. I think that much is fair to say. At the very least it is an indication of a problem when such power is given to people who do not necessarily know how to intelligently use it. The language barrier should have been evident to the officer. However, officers are not required to speak more than English.

  My point is this: Intelligence tests might be good for quickly weeding out officers who lack reasoning skills.

• 75 steveo // Jul 31, 2009 at 2:17 PM

  from #58

  Plain view should recruit this guy. He knows what to do with 7 yr olds.

  http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/jul/31/woman-says-officer-handcuffed-7-year-old/

• 76 steveo // Jul 31, 2009 at 2:42 PM

  http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_636185.html

  I guess the Rodriguez family should feel pretty lucky for getting tased for being noisy.

  This guy was killed by taser by leos and the guy didn’t do anything.

  “Thomas committed no crime before he was shocked and restrained. ” said District Attorney.

• 77 genewitch // Jul 31, 2009 at 2:48 PM

  aaron @67:

  I say again. I can not find state law that says anything about backyards being PUBLIC as it pertains to public intoxication. Perhaps you can cite the relevant code to back up your anecdotal evidence?

  CAN NOT FIND THE CODE/ORDINANCE/LAW/ETC: WHERE IS IT? link please.

• 78 Pinandpuller // Jul 31, 2009 at 4:01 PM

  genewitch

  I think he was saying viewed from public, like if you are nude sunbathing in your front yard.

• 79 Terry C // Aug 2, 2009 at 3:16 PM

  This is not surprising in Virginia. The law enforcement in this state need to be taken down. They really are out to get the people. If the words “To protect and serve” are imprinted on their cars, they need to be removed or the police need to change their ways. Cops in Virginia are out to get the people. They don’t care about the citizens at all, and they enforce unconstitutional laws that violate certain rights granted by a higher legislature; free speech violation is a prime example. I don’t feel bad for a single virginia cop who dies “in the line of duty.” They, of all law enforcement, deserve the horrible treatment they get. All I really have to say is down with the Virginia government and those who uphold it.

• 80 1776blues // Aug 3, 2009 at 1:43 PM

  Perhaps the dumbest comment made was by 10-8, who said this

  ” Here’s a news flash. Cops who carry tasers are tasered themselves as part of their training. I’ve been tasered many times. It’s no big deal. It’s a far cry from being murdered.”

  Though it may be a far cry from being murdered it is still wrong and it is often used by cops out of controlled.”

  So 10-8, are you saying when Cops kill it is MURDER? Thanks for the admission of guilt!

  I too feel nothing when the media forces the funeral of a officer, who was killed, down our throats.

• 81 Bill // Aug 4, 2009 at 11:56 AM

  Terry,

  I find your indictment of all Virginia law enforcement disgusting and ignorant.

  How do you sleep at night? Well, I take it, because Virginia’s crime rate is nothing compared to that of D.C. and Maryland, thanks to our officers in blue.

• 82 1776blues // Aug 4, 2009 at 12:25 PM

  Bill,

  Most who support a police state would find Terry’s coments disgusting and ignorant. Law enforce as a whole nationwide has gone bonkers as they serve their masters who wish to destroy this nation and the freedom it stands for.

  Police departments have been militarized and no longer protect and serve. There are many former officers Jack McLamb and Barry Cooper are two who have exposed the their departments for purposely violating constitutional rights of the people, planting evidence, beating suspects, shooting suspects then makining the classic excuse that the officer thought the suspect was armed.

  Some try to make a case that police are attacked, shot, or killed at a much higher rate, but when did that start? It most likely started when police started abusing the people they serve.

  They have brought much of this on themselves. There are so many things that have happened but one major cause was the money generated by our justice system that is passing laws that criminalize the actions of the people.

  This fact I realized when I saw a 7 year old girl in court for truancy about 13 years ago!

  Police in my opinion get a free ride to do what they want without reprecussion the majority of the time.

  Do a google search and read how many incidents there are of cops using their tasers in situations that did not warrant its use!

  Maybe you want to live a police state but most americans don’t.

  Which nation has the highest jail and prison population in the world? We do! Jailing someone who did not cause harm to someone is wrong and the assault on the police officer in this case is another trumped up charge used to make a case and stupid juries convict people on the word on these lying cops!

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