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	<title>Comments on: Police also have the right to take photos</title>
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	<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/</link>
	<description>It's a First Amendment Right</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:03:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Michaelk42</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12955</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaelk42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 03:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12955</guid>
		<description>@Freddy Hill

Yes, but not everyone is the same. We have the distinctions between Private Person/Vortex Public Figure/Public Figure for a reason.

Larry Wilder is a public figure by choice. He holds a public position of authority because he sought it out, and is therefore subject to more public scrutiny. His actions are more newsworthy than just some ransom private person.

So no, I don&#039;t have a problem with a police department employee leaking this information to the press. It&#039;s about a public figure that represents the people, and those people should know about things like this. That&#039;s how it works here. It&#039;s not perfect, but it mostly works. If not for anonymous sources within organizations, we&#039;d know a lot less about things we need to know about. Sometimes a little more than we&#039;d like to know gets out... but that&#039;s the price we pay, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Freddy Hill</p>
<p>Yes, but not everyone is the same. We have the distinctions between Private Person/Vortex Public Figure/Public Figure for a reason.</p>
<p>Larry Wilder is a public figure by choice. He holds a public position of authority because he sought it out, and is therefore subject to more public scrutiny. His actions are more newsworthy than just some ransom private person.</p>
<p>So no, I don&#8217;t have a problem with a police department employee leaking this information to the press. It&#8217;s about a public figure that represents the people, and those people should know about things like this. That&#8217;s how it works here. It&#8217;s not perfect, but it mostly works. If not for anonymous sources within organizations, we&#8217;d know a lot less about things we need to know about. Sometimes a little more than we&#8217;d like to know gets out&#8230; but that&#8217;s the price we pay, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Freddy Hill</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12953</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12953</guid>
		<description>&quot;If a high-ranking city official is unable to handle his drinks and ends up passed out in a garbage can, then the public has the right to know about it.&quot;

You are absolutely right about this.  But it is not the cop on the beat that should make the decision about what citizens should know, and which records are to be relased (all records should be released, you will say, but as long as only a few are, then the cop is the wrong person to decide).  

Cops should have a code of behavior and stick to it no matter if the guy in the trash can is a poor unemployed laborer, a famous citizen or Mr George Soros himself.  And cops should also have a single code of behavior if the gal taking the pic with her iPhone is on welfare or is Miss Paris Hilton herself.

I have a somewhat related observation:  I was recently in Beijing, China.  There was a traffic accident.  The police was doing what cops anywhere must do in these cases, but the interesting thing was that there were about 20-30 Chinese citizens with video cell phones recording the whole thing.  The cops waved their hands at those that got closer to them, just like you would try to get rid of a pesky fly, but that was the extent of their reaction.  I knew that they would have liked to beat the holy shit out of some of them, but there were too many (and they had cameras!).  This is my suggestion to win the battle: let&#039;s encourage americans to get out their phones and point them at cops ALL the time even for most trivial scenes.  You see curious citizens milling around emergencies all the time; they should have their phones out so this becomes &quot;normal.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If a high-ranking city official is unable to handle his drinks and ends up passed out in a garbage can, then the public has the right to know about it.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are absolutely right about this.  But it is not the cop on the beat that should make the decision about what citizens should know, and which records are to be relased (all records should be released, you will say, but as long as only a few are, then the cop is the wrong person to decide).  </p>
<p>Cops should have a code of behavior and stick to it no matter if the guy in the trash can is a poor unemployed laborer, a famous citizen or Mr George Soros himself.  And cops should also have a single code of behavior if the gal taking the pic with her iPhone is on welfare or is Miss Paris Hilton herself.</p>
<p>I have a somewhat related observation:  I was recently in Beijing, China.  There was a traffic accident.  The police was doing what cops anywhere must do in these cases, but the interesting thing was that there were about 20-30 Chinese citizens with video cell phones recording the whole thing.  The cops waved their hands at those that got closer to them, just like you would try to get rid of a pesky fly, but that was the extent of their reaction.  I knew that they would have liked to beat the holy shit out of some of them, but there were too many (and they had cameras!).  This is my suggestion to win the battle: let&#8217;s encourage americans to get out their phones and point them at cops ALL the time even for most trivial scenes.  You see curious citizens milling around emergencies all the time; they should have their phones out so this becomes &#8220;normal.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Miller</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12942</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12942</guid>
		<description>Freddy Hill,

I understand what you are saying and you are not alone. 

I&#039;m seeing this through an eyes of a journalist and through the eyes of a citizen.

If a high-ranking city official is unable to handle his drinks and ends up passed out in a garbage can, then the public has the right to know about it.

We can also argue that there would be political motivations - or at least political protectionism - by not releasing the photo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freddy Hill,</p>
<p>I understand what you are saying and you are not alone. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m seeing this through an eyes of a journalist and through the eyes of a citizen.</p>
<p>If a high-ranking city official is unable to handle his drinks and ends up passed out in a garbage can, then the public has the right to know about it.</p>
<p>We can also argue that there would be political motivations &#8211; or at least political protectionism &#8211; by not releasing the photo.</p>
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		<title>By: Freddy Hill</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12941</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12941</guid>
		<description>First, Carlos, thanks for being such a First Ammendment advocate.  As an amateur photographer that has been challenged on occasion, I have the same emotional reactions as you do.  As somebody that has been helped by the police when it mattered, and that has always been treated courteously by them even when they were - in my opinion - wrong, I am happy that you are defending them.

But I think that you are wrong here.  The first ammendment is for citizens and does not apply here.  The speech of representatives of the government is not protected by the first ammendment when they are acting as agents of said government.  I respect the military, the police, firefighters.  But when on duty they are not free to say whatever they wish.  I think this interpretation is wise because the temptation for abuse is too high.

Let me clarify:  I&#039;m not talking about whistle blowing here.  Officers have a moral, if not legal, duty to publicize illegal behavior by their superiors, but this is not that.  The guy in the garbage can is a citizen as far as an officer of the law is concerned.  One might suspect extra-legal, political motivations for the distribution of this picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, Carlos, thanks for being such a First Ammendment advocate.  As an amateur photographer that has been challenged on occasion, I have the same emotional reactions as you do.  As somebody that has been helped by the police when it mattered, and that has always been treated courteously by them even when they were &#8211; in my opinion &#8211; wrong, I am happy that you are defending them.</p>
<p>But I think that you are wrong here.  The first ammendment is for citizens and does not apply here.  The speech of representatives of the government is not protected by the first ammendment when they are acting as agents of said government.  I respect the military, the police, firefighters.  But when on duty they are not free to say whatever they wish.  I think this interpretation is wise because the temptation for abuse is too high.</p>
<p>Let me clarify:  I&#8217;m not talking about whistle blowing here.  Officers have a moral, if not legal, duty to publicize illegal behavior by their superiors, but this is not that.  The guy in the garbage can is a citizen as far as an officer of the law is concerned.  One might suspect extra-legal, political motivations for the distribution of this picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Michaelk42</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12926</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaelk42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12926</guid>
		<description>I have a hard time believing that if he was anyone else, he wouldn&#039;t have been hauled off for public intoxication.

The mayor needs to concentrate less on finding out who took the picture and more on making sure his city attorney doesn&#039;t pull something like this again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a hard time believing that if he was anyone else, he wouldn&#8217;t have been hauled off for public intoxication.</p>
<p>The mayor needs to concentrate less on finding out who took the picture and more on making sure his city attorney doesn&#8217;t pull something like this again.</p>
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		<title>By: 300baud</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12921</link>
		<dc:creator>300baud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12921</guid>
		<description>I suppose it&#039;s as you say.

On the other hand, the police have access to a lot of information the rest of us don&#039;t.  They&#039;re in a unique position that allows them to create quite a collection of embarrassing photos.  What might be even worse than leaking to the media would be keeping them in a safe.  Though this may not be illegal, I don&#039;t think it is good for anyone if the police start going down this path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose it&#8217;s as you say.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the police have access to a lot of information the rest of us don&#8217;t.  They&#8217;re in a unique position that allows them to create quite a collection of embarrassing photos.  What might be even worse than leaking to the media would be keeping them in a safe.  Though this may not be illegal, I don&#8217;t think it is good for anyone if the police start going down this path.</p>
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		<title>By: NYCPhotorights</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12920</link>
		<dc:creator>NYCPhotorights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12920</guid>
		<description>Correction - I should have said &quot;New York Post&quot; they would lead with this on the front page</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction &#8211; I should have said &#8220;New York Post&#8221; they would lead with this on the front page</p>
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		<title>By: NYCPhotorights</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12918</link>
		<dc:creator>NYCPhotorights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12918</guid>
		<description>@300baud

Replace the word &quot;cop&quot; with &quot;anyone&quot; and would there still be a difference? If I happened upon that scene, took the picture and sent it to the Daily News, would it be a problem? Public view = fair game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@300baud</p>
<p>Replace the word &#8220;cop&#8221; with &#8220;anyone&#8221; and would there still be a difference? If I happened upon that scene, took the picture and sent it to the Daily News, would it be a problem? Public view = fair game.</p>
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		<title>By: Catinthewall</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/06/23/police-also-have-the-right-to-take-photos/#comment-12917</link>
		<dc:creator>Catinthewall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=7059#comment-12917</guid>
		<description>If they photographed him for evidence, why did they just take him home?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they photographed him for evidence, why did they just take him home?</p>
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