Comments on: GOP aide accuses union organizers of forcing him to delete video http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/ It's a First Amendment Right Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:03:25 +0000 hourly 1 By: Duane Kerzic http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/#comment-10565 Duane Kerzic Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:04:17 +0000 http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6262#comment-10565 Kurt, I was depending on this definition: <em>2C:13-1 Kidnapping. 2C:13-1. Kidnapping. a. Holding for ransom, reward or as a hostage. A person is guilty of kidnapping if he unlawfully removes another from the place where he is found or if he unlawfully confines another with the purpose of holding that person for ransom or reward or as a shield or hostage. b.Holding for other purposes. A person is guilty of kidnapping if he unlawfully removes another from his place of residence or business, or a substantial distance from the vicinity where he is found, or if he unlawfully confines another for a substantial period, with any of the following purposes: (1)To facilitate commission of any crime or flight thereafter; (2)To inflict bodily injury on or to terrorize the victim or another; (3)To interfere with the performance of any governmental or political function; or (4)To permanently deprive a parent, guardian or other lawful custodian of custody of the victim.</em> They are facilitating the crime of robbery by requiring Milner to delete his images before he will be allowed to leave. It could also be argued that they were interfering with a political function. The definition of substantial period has been debated over time. I thought it fit in this case. Kurt,

I was depending on this definition:
2C:13-1 Kidnapping.

2C:13-1. Kidnapping. a. Holding for ransom, reward or as a hostage. A person is guilty of kidnapping if he unlawfully removes another from the place where he is found or if he unlawfully confines another with the purpose of holding that person for ransom or reward or as a shield or hostage.

b.Holding for other purposes. A person is guilty of kidnapping if he unlawfully removes another from his place of residence or business, or a substantial distance from the vicinity where he is found, or if he unlawfully confines another for a substantial period, with any of the following purposes:

(1)To facilitate commission of any crime or flight thereafter;

(2)To inflict bodily injury on or to terrorize the victim or another;

(3)To interfere with the performance of any governmental or political function; or

(4)To permanently deprive a parent, guardian or other lawful custodian of custody of the victim.

They are facilitating the crime of robbery by requiring Milner to delete his images before he will be allowed to leave. It could also be argued that they were interfering with a political function. The definition of substantial period has been debated over time. I thought it fit in this case.

]]> By: Kurt http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/#comment-10564 Kurt Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:02:54 +0000 http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6262#comment-10564 @Duane: It wouldn't be kidnapping. That involves actually transporting someone against their will. At most it would be false imprisonment, but I doubt anyone would bother to file charges. @Duane:

It wouldn’t be kidnapping. That involves actually transporting someone against their will.

At most it would be false imprisonment, but I doubt anyone would bother to file charges.

]]> By: Simon Jester http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/#comment-10560 Simon Jester Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:26:39 +0000 http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6262#comment-10560 Erase the tape? How the hell do you erase the tape? It's not like a computer where you can remove it from the hard drive (which -I- could get back), this requires over-writing the tape itself. Or running an electromagnet over the surface. Erasing a tape is hard, and not something built in to common cameras. Erase the tape? How the hell do you erase the tape? It’s not like a computer where you can remove it from the hard drive (which -I- could get back), this requires over-writing the tape itself. Or running an electromagnet over the surface. Erasing a tape is hard, and not something built in to common cameras.

]]> By: Voice of Reason http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/#comment-10553 Voice of Reason Wed, 29 Apr 2009 03:53:07 +0000 http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6262#comment-10553 Note to Carlos Miller: First, I'll note that Mike Cerbo's <em>came looking for trouble</em> remark is one of the standard arguments that I've mentioned before in a LEO context; i.e., the <em>asking for it</em> argument. Most people simply dismiss arguments of this type and move on. To me, it's not something to be dismissed. It's more significant. It's a gaping hole. There's no such thing as <em>asking for it.</em> There's only <em>proportionate response</em> and <em>disproportionate response.</em> I've never understood why people aren't able to perceive this. I haven't reviewed this case, so I can't comment on the level of response. However, I do know that as soon as somebody uses the <em>asking for it</em> argument, they're essentially admitting that they're in the wrong. Second, I asked you a question elsewhere that you may not have seen or that you may have been too busy to answer. I thought I'd ask it one more time. If PDF versions of your briefs exist, they're probably small files. Is there any reason that you couldn't put copies of the PDF files on this site? I'd be interested in seeing them, but for technical reasons I won't be able to use Scribd at this time. HTML or text versions would work just as well. Note to Carlos Miller:

First, I’ll note that Mike Cerbo’s came looking for trouble remark is one of the standard arguments that I’ve mentioned before in a LEO context; i.e., the asking for it argument. Most people simply dismiss arguments of this type and move on. To me, it’s not something to be dismissed. It’s more significant. It’s a gaping hole. There’s no such thing as asking for it. There’s only proportionate response and disproportionate response. I’ve never understood why people aren’t able to perceive this. I haven’t reviewed this case, so I can’t comment on the level of response. However, I do know that as soon as somebody uses the asking for it argument, they’re essentially admitting that they’re in the wrong.

Second, I asked you a question elsewhere that you may not have seen or that you may have been too busy to answer. I thought I’d ask it one more time. If PDF versions of your briefs exist, they’re probably small files. Is there any reason that you couldn’t put copies of the PDF files on this site? I’d be interested in seeing them, but for technical reasons I won’t be able to use Scribd at this time. HTML or text versions would work just as well.

]]> By: Carlos Miller http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/#comment-10546 Carlos Miller Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:10:01 +0000 http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6262#comment-10546 As I was writing this, it almost felt as if I were rewriting the VA story. As I was writing this, it almost felt as if I were rewriting the VA story.

]]> By: Duane Kerzic http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/28/gop-aide-accuses-union-organizers-of-forcing-him-to-delete-his-video/#comment-10545 Duane Kerzic Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:06:26 +0000 http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6262#comment-10545 Carlos, I can assure you that Democrats video tape Republicans all the time. This sounds like the typical BS. Oh you're taking photos or video. That's not allowed because we say it's not allowed. Well they just don't want to be embarrassed. No delete what you have. Oh, you aren't cooperating with us. You're a trouble maker just looking for trouble. You're a trespasser. Just the normal escalation of things and so predictable When they blocked his ability to leave they kidnapped him. I guess they had to leave that part out of it. It'll be interesting to see what the Sheriff come up with. Carlos,

I can assure you that Democrats video tape Republicans all the time.

This sounds like the typical BS. Oh you’re taking photos or video. That’s not allowed because we say it’s not allowed. Well they just don’t want to be embarrassed. No delete what you have. Oh, you aren’t cooperating with us. You’re a trouble maker just looking for trouble. You’re a trespasser. Just the normal escalation of things and so predictable

When they blocked his ability to leave they kidnapped him. I guess they had to leave that part out of it.

It’ll be interesting to see what the Sheriff come up with.

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