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	<title>Comments on: UK anti-photo law beginning to show its ugly side</title>
	<atom:link href="http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/</link>
	<description>It's a First Amendment Right</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 08:36:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jon Quimbly</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-15999</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Quimbly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-15999</guid>
		<description>Check out this article for just how 1984 the UK have gone-

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/world/europe/25surveillance.html?pagewanted=2&amp;hp

“They said my privacy wasn’t intruded on because the surveillance was covert.”

Wow.  I mean, fucking wow.  Local school bureacrats in UK have the power to covertly spy upon law-abiding citizens?  Tap their internet connections, review their phone calls, videotape them...?

To say their privacy was not violated because the spying was done covertly... can you say doublespeak?  Blackwhite?  Is Ingsoc already here?

Doubleplus ungood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out this article for just how 1984 the UK have gone-</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/world/europe/25surveillance.html?pagewanted=2&amp;hp" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/world/europe/25surveillance.html?pagewanted=2&amp;hp</a></p>
<p>“They said my privacy wasn’t intruded on because the surveillance was covert.”</p>
<p>Wow.  I mean, fucking wow.  Local school bureacrats in UK have the power to covertly spy upon law-abiding citizens?  Tap their internet connections, review their phone calls, videotape them&#8230;?</p>
<p>To say their privacy was not violated because the spying was done covertly&#8230; can you say doublespeak?  Blackwhite?  Is Ingsoc already here?</p>
<p>Doubleplus ungood.</p>
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		<title>By: Voice of Reason</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-10007</link>
		<dc:creator>Voice of Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-10007</guid>
		<description>Note to Duane Kerzic and &quot;diomedesxx&quot;: You are both right to feel the way that you do. Now that we&#039;ve established this, the question is, what&#039;s the appropriate thing to do about it?

WRT S.733, the issue received some publicity. Then, as with the Pataky case, the publicity died down. That&#039;s how things work these days. It&#039;s a democracy, but it&#039;s a &quot;managed&quot; democracy. Things like outrage and loss of interest are taken into account. I&#039;d ask that people call attention to S.733 periodically as the law moves forward.

WRT the big picture, I&#039;m old enough, as are many people in the audience, to remember people&#039;s remarks when 1984 rolled around. Look, they said, 1984 isn&#039;t like the book &quot;1984&quot;. It&#039;s Morning in America. In my opinion, it wasn&#039;t Morning in America then, and it isn&#039;t Morning in America now. &quot;1984&quot; &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; coming. My advice in general is that the &quot;sides&quot; I often see don&#039;t need to put aside their differences, but they &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; need to find common ground when it comes to things that are going to affect everybody&#039;s lives for quite a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note to Duane Kerzic and &#8220;diomedesxx&#8221;: You are both right to feel the way that you do. Now that we&#8217;ve established this, the question is, what&#8217;s the appropriate thing to do about it?</p>
<p>WRT S.733, the issue received some publicity. Then, as with the Pataky case, the publicity died down. That&#8217;s how things work these days. It&#8217;s a democracy, but it&#8217;s a &#8220;managed&#8221; democracy. Things like outrage and loss of interest are taken into account. I&#8217;d ask that people call attention to S.733 periodically as the law moves forward.</p>
<p>WRT the big picture, I&#8217;m old enough, as are many people in the audience, to remember people&#8217;s remarks when 1984 rolled around. Look, they said, 1984 isn&#8217;t like the book &#8220;1984&#8243;. It&#8217;s Morning in America. In my opinion, it wasn&#8217;t Morning in America then, and it isn&#8217;t Morning in America now. &#8220;1984&#8243; <em>is</em> coming. My advice in general is that the &#8220;sides&#8221; I often see don&#8217;t need to put aside their differences, but they <em>do</em> need to find common ground when it comes to things that are going to affect everybody&#8217;s lives for quite a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: diomedesxx</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-10006</link>
		<dc:creator>diomedesxx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 05:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-10006</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;(sigh)&lt;/i&gt;
This culture of fear is getting absurd. In a few more years I expect McCarthyism to make a comeback. &lt;i&gt;&quot;He has multiple pre-paid cellular phones! He &lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt; be engaging in terrorism-related activities! We must call the police! (Lets ignore the credit crisis making it difficult for people to keep their credit score high  enough to get a contract phone, aye? And the possibility that he doesn&#039;t want girlfriend #1 finding out about girlfriend #2)&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
As far as cyber-security litigation goes, I don&#039;t think you are ever going to get something out there everyone is going to agree with. There are multiple innate problems  with even trying to address it (Ok, sure, you traced the hack back to computer X, now you still need to prove person B was on that computer, doing the deed as Microsoft&#039;s million-plus network of zombie computers makes it hard to prove the person at the computer actually was doing it).
Checks and balances have to be imposed, but as we have seen the past several years, &quot;terrorism&quot; flavored bills tend to be lacking in that regard, as our congress seems to be too afraid of being possibly quoted as opposing an anti-terrorism bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>(sigh)</i><br />
This culture of fear is getting absurd. In a few more years I expect McCarthyism to make a comeback. <i>&#8220;He has multiple pre-paid cellular phones! He <b>must</b> be engaging in terrorism-related activities! We must call the police! (Lets ignore the credit crisis making it difficult for people to keep their credit score high  enough to get a contract phone, aye? And the possibility that he doesn&#8217;t want girlfriend #1 finding out about girlfriend #2)&#8221;</i><br />
As far as cyber-security litigation goes, I don&#8217;t think you are ever going to get something out there everyone is going to agree with. There are multiple innate problems  with even trying to address it (Ok, sure, you traced the hack back to computer X, now you still need to prove person B was on that computer, doing the deed as Microsoft&#8217;s million-plus network of zombie computers makes it hard to prove the person at the computer actually was doing it).<br />
Checks and balances have to be imposed, but as we have seen the past several years, &#8220;terrorism&#8221; flavored bills tend to be lacking in that regard, as our congress seems to be too afraid of being possibly quoted as opposing an anti-terrorism bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Duane Kerzic</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-10005</link>
		<dc:creator>Duane Kerzic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 05:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-10005</guid>
		<description>V of R,

I&#039;ve heard of s.733 and it&#039;s got me concerned. To be honest I&#039;m more concerned now about liberty than I have been in a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V of R,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard of s.733 and it&#8217;s got me concerned. To be honest I&#8217;m more concerned now about liberty than I have been in a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Voice of Reason</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-9978</link>
		<dc:creator>Voice of Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-9978</guid>
		<description>In my previous posting, I provided some information about S.773 to Vidiot. I&#039;d like to add a related quote from a blog named Hot Air:

&lt;em&gt;Section 14 may be a bigger problem.  It essentially revokes all privacy safeguards on Internet use for all networks.  The Fourth Amendment would go straight out the window with the explicit inclusion of “private sector owned critical infrastructure information systems and networks.”  While Section 18 limits jurisdiction to federal networks, Section 14 allows the government to go after private networks without search warrants.  The section also doesn’t limit the jurisdiction to acute attacks, either.  That jurisdiction exists at all times.

The big problem isn’t that Obama might shut down the Internet.  It’s that the bill essentially repeals the Fourth Amendment.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my previous posting, I provided some information about S.773 to Vidiot. I&#8217;d like to add a related quote from a blog named Hot Air:</p>
<p><em>Section 14 may be a bigger problem.  It essentially revokes all privacy safeguards on Internet use for all networks.  The Fourth Amendment would go straight out the window with the explicit inclusion of “private sector owned critical infrastructure information systems and networks.”  While Section 18 limits jurisdiction to federal networks, Section 14 allows the government to go after private networks without search warrants.  The section also doesn’t limit the jurisdiction to acute attacks, either.  That jurisdiction exists at all times.</p>
<p>The big problem isn’t that Obama might shut down the Internet.  It’s that the bill essentially repeals the Fourth Amendment.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Voice of Reason</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-9975</link>
		<dc:creator>Voice of Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-9975</guid>
		<description>Note to Vidiot: You said, &quot;Do you have an HR or S number, or a THOMAS cite? I’d like to learn more.&quot;

Yes, I do. I&#039;m referring to the Cybersecurity Act of 2009, S.773. These things always have fine-sounding names. Cybersecurity sounds important. Who could argue against it? Mother Jones summarizes S.773 as follows:

&lt;em&gt;The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 gives the president the ability to “declare a cybersecurity emergency” and shut down or limit Internet traffic in any “critical” information network “in the interest of national security.” The bill does not define a critical information network or a cybersecurity emergency. That definition would be left to the president.&lt;/em&gt;

In other words, since nothing is defined, we&#039;re handing over the entire Internet, as far as US access goes, to the executive branch. This includes weblogs, conventional web sites, RSS feeds, E-mail, other resources. Mr. Miller&#039;s site. Your site, if you have one. Everything.

The following comment from Digg strikes me as relevant:

&lt;em&gt;This thing goes way beyond FISA in its power to invade our privacy. This would allow the federal government to take over and shut down any private network in the US as well as have complete carte blanch in the ability to look at private information... This is a huge power grab and yet where is the outrage?&lt;/em&gt;

My personal feeling is that, if free speech on the Internet goes, it&#039;s all over. It doesn&#039;t matter which &quot;side&quot; you&#039;re on politically. Whichever &quot;side&quot; you&#039;re on, do you want a future President on the other &quot;side&quot; to have this kind of power? Both &quot;sides&quot; should strongly oppose this law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note to Vidiot: You said, &#8220;Do you have an HR or S number, or a THOMAS cite? I’d like to learn more.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, I do. I&#8217;m referring to the Cybersecurity Act of 2009, S.773. These things always have fine-sounding names. Cybersecurity sounds important. Who could argue against it? Mother Jones summarizes S.773 as follows:</p>
<p><em>The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 gives the president the ability to “declare a cybersecurity emergency” and shut down or limit Internet traffic in any “critical” information network “in the interest of national security.” The bill does not define a critical information network or a cybersecurity emergency. That definition would be left to the president.</em></p>
<p>In other words, since nothing is defined, we&#8217;re handing over the entire Internet, as far as US access goes, to the executive branch. This includes weblogs, conventional web sites, RSS feeds, E-mail, other resources. Mr. Miller&#8217;s site. Your site, if you have one. Everything.</p>
<p>The following comment from Digg strikes me as relevant:</p>
<p><em>This thing goes way beyond FISA in its power to invade our privacy. This would allow the federal government to take over and shut down any private network in the US as well as have complete carte blanch in the ability to look at private information&#8230; This is a huge power grab and yet where is the outrage?</em></p>
<p>My personal feeling is that, if free speech on the Internet goes, it&#8217;s all over. It doesn&#8217;t matter which &#8220;side&#8221; you&#8217;re on politically. Whichever &#8220;side&#8221; you&#8217;re on, do you want a future President on the other &#8220;side&#8221; to have this kind of power? Both &#8220;sides&#8221; should strongly oppose this law.</p>
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		<title>By: sandhya</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-9973</link>
		<dc:creator>sandhya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-9973</guid>
		<description>I accept this site why because I learn more information from this site</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I accept this site why because I learn more information from this site</p>
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		<title>By: Vidiot</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-9970</link>
		<dc:creator>Vidiot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-9970</guid>
		<description>Voice of Reason,

&lt;i&gt;There’s legislation pending in the US that’ll allow the executive branch to shut down the Internet.&lt;/i&gt;

really? Do you have an HR or S number, or a THOMAS cite? I&#039;d like to learn more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voice of Reason,</p>
<p><i>There’s legislation pending in the US that’ll allow the executive branch to shut down the Internet.</i></p>
<p>really? Do you have an HR or S number, or a THOMAS cite? I&#8217;d like to learn more.</p>
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		<title>By: Voice of Reason</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/16/uk-anti-photo-law-beginning-to-show-its-ugly-side/#comment-9969</link>
		<dc:creator>Voice of Reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=6044#comment-9969</guid>
		<description>Note to Simon Jester: You said, &quot;Nope. Yankee born. I carry a copy of the Constitution with me in my camera bag and I fly the Gadsten flag on occasion. So I know exactly of which you speak.&quot;

Thanks for responding. I&#039;m not sure what to do about all of this. Mr. Miller is gracious enough to allow discussion about this kind of thing in the forums. However, to use a metaphor that seems to fit, things don&#039;t usually work out the way that they did in the Ender Wiggin novels. The series in question featured a blogger (Peter Wiggin) who took control of the entire world and changed everything based primarily on his clever and insightful posts :-) I imagine that many posters would identify with Peter Wiggin, but the whole thing isn&#039;t likely to happen here. Nothing will occur WRT these policies unless there&#039;s a public outcry. I don&#039;t believe that there&#039;ll be one. That&#039;s coming from somebody who&#039;d advise you not to be &quot;frightened&quot; immediately. I&#039;m concerned about the long haul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note to Simon Jester: You said, &#8220;Nope. Yankee born. I carry a copy of the Constitution with me in my camera bag and I fly the Gadsten flag on occasion. So I know exactly of which you speak.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for responding. I&#8217;m not sure what to do about all of this. Mr. Miller is gracious enough to allow discussion about this kind of thing in the forums. However, to use a metaphor that seems to fit, things don&#8217;t usually work out the way that they did in the Ender Wiggin novels. The series in question featured a blogger (Peter Wiggin) who took control of the entire world and changed everything based primarily on his clever and insightful posts <img src='http://carlosmiller.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I imagine that many posters would identify with Peter Wiggin, but the whole thing isn&#8217;t likely to happen here. Nothing will occur WRT these policies unless there&#8217;s a public outcry. I don&#8217;t believe that there&#8217;ll be one. That&#8217;s coming from somebody who&#8217;d advise you not to be &#8220;frightened&#8221; immediately. I&#8217;m concerned about the long haul.</p>
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