On the job at least. Then they wonder why no one wants to talk to them without a lawyer present.

I have to say it sounds like you teach criminal justice some place.

I assume you are referring to Pottinger v. City of Miami from 2 Feb 1996. That case was actually settled.

Cooperating ACLU attorney Benjamin S. Waxman noted that this was a landmark settlement recognizing that the homeless cannot be denied fundamental constitutional rights simply because they are homeless. Waxman felt that the settlement showed the best of what can be achieved when two sides of a dispute work together to find common ground to accomplish a mutual goal. The settlement mayserve as a model for how other cities treat the homeless.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/13212/Pottinger-v-City-Miami.html

I don’t believe you can train someone to be honest. Most people are more honest than not. But everyone lies at least a little about something, it’s part of the human condition.

The only reason I said what I did was because this goes beyond how they treat people that have a camera or a cell phone. If you go and watch something that’s a newsworthy happening even if you aren’t taking photos you’ll be asked to move along many times. If you don’t they do the same thing to you as if you had a camera. Yet the person probably has a right to watch as long as they don’t enter the actual investigation area.

I’m looking for a pragmatic, working solution to this recurring problem and the only thing I can think of is specific training dealing only with electronic recording devices (both audio and video).

As much as I support police officers I notice that they are mostly physical guys (and girls) who do not take very well to talk of abstract topics. They tend to get tired and fall asleep. Talking with them about civil rights I see as being a big waste of time. Training them specifically how to deal with citizens with cameras in the age where everyone has one seems more practical and something they will use on a daily basis.

Courts can offer more than monetary remedies. In the 90′s the city of Miami was treating the homeless shamefully. They were sued (successfully) and required to change how the city handled them. There are, admittedly, some continued problems but everyone agrees that the situation is better than before the lawsuit.

“Police officers have to become aware that the worst thing they can do is try to get a wrongful conviction.”

I’m afraid you are wanting to train officers to be honest. You cannot train that. It is either a part of their character or it is not – like hair color. That is why so much screening is necessary before hiring.

What is preferable IMHO is to remove any excuses about their misunderstanding of the law. At that point it will be easier to remove the offending officer by weakening the union’s defensive position that he/she just didn’t know.

My comments aren’t about anyone specifically but are about the system in general. I will be specific on this one point and predict right now that freebird will eventually settle his issue, however I don’t expect him to ever tell us. Why do I feel secure in making this prediction? Because about 90% of all civil cases are settled at some point. Over 85% of all criminal matters end in a plea which is basically a settlement.

Courts can only offer ‘remedies at law” which amounts money. They can’t offer vindication as a remedy.

I don’t think that police academy’s have to teach photographers rights so much as they have to teach basic civil rights and respect for those that they are sworn to protect. If this was taught the rights of photographers would also be respected. Having a camera doesn’t give you any special rights, but it also doesn’t deprive you of any rights. This depravation of rights because you have a camera is the problem we are seeing on this blog. This also includes respect for those accused of a crime.

Police officers have to become aware that the worst thing they can do is try to get a wrongful conviction. Putting someone in jail for something they didn’t do is a horrible thing. It’s also wrong when they escalate things by their actions to a point where they are charging someone that “asked for it” with some crime for which they provided the pretext. This has to stop and it just doesn’t happen to photographers.

Is there any wonder that the credibility of the police in general is as low as it is. Police departments have to take action to change things. They need to adopt something like one of the ISO 9000 standards. They need to invite and welcome public oversight at all levels. The citiznes will reward them when they behave correctly. They will do a better job, they will get more help to solve crimes. They will restore the job to one that’s to be respected.

I tend to agree with Freelance. No long lasting change will occur without a winning lawsuit that is brought to its conclusion.

I am not passing judgement on you Duane – each situation is different as is each litigant.

My goal is to have police academy training concerning photographer’s rights. I can’t see the class lasting for more than two hours – tops. As the current police academy lasts about five months I find it difficult to swallow that the training could not be included somehow.

Bureaucracies being what they are, however, means the county politicians and local police departments will resist change until being forced to change legally. The only way I see this happening is if a nonprofit sponsors a litigant’s case to the very end.

I don’t know how far along your case is but it sounds like it’s very new. Why don’t you post the particulars? Such as who, what, why, where and when. Of course you could just give us the citation and we could look up the suit ourselves. It is after all a public record. Then let us know how it’s going in 3 month intervals until either the case is adjudicated or settled.

I’d pay particular attention to your agreement for representation. I’d suggest that you prepare for a disappointment in case things don’t go your way.

There are many ways to get justice and vindication. Every one’s definition is different.