Photography is Not a Crime

248 responses so far ↓

• 1 Robert // Apr 2, 2009 at 4:18 AM

  Show those cops who’s in charge. Pigs.

• 2 tkmorris (DU) // Apr 2, 2009 at 4:36 AM

  Thanks for the heads up Carlos, it’s really good to see another blogger with the guts to stand up to the goons. I am ESPECIALLY pleased that he also owns GoodPhoenixcops.com , and while it’s merely a placeholder at the moment he is willing to call attention to cops who do the job right.

  Bookmarked his blog right next to yours. Keep up the good work.

• 3 Andrew DeFilippis // Apr 2, 2009 at 5:22 AM

  TrueCrypt people… Seriously… 20+ character passwords to go along with it. They won’t crack a thing… And they sure as heck are not going to get the password for it from me.

• 4 Eric Ogunbase // Apr 2, 2009 at 5:45 AM

  This will grow more and more common. Does anyone seriously doubt that we are living in an Orwellian nightmare now? Cops raid someone because they CRITICIZED them? With all the crime going on in Phoenix and the surrounding areas, they go after a fucking BLOGGER? Wait…was it Phoenix, China? Nope. The Land of the “Free”. My ass.

  ACLU needs to be all over this.

• 5 Andrew DeFilippis // Apr 2, 2009 at 5:56 AM

  We are coming ever so closer to a police state. With the Obamanation in effect, the government is gaining control OVER the citizens. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

  It won’t be long until we have another civil war!… Us Americans are becoming tired of government by the second. To much taxation, way too much spending, and a whole lot of policing going on.

  It’s a good thing we aren’t (yet) being watched by cameras everywhere we walk, like in the UK. And hopefully we won’t be “detained” for taking pictures of streets and buildings or POLICE!…

• 6 empty00eyes // Apr 2, 2009 at 6:11 AM

  ACLU seems to be more about special rights over individual rights unfortunately. Wait, was the blogger part of a minority or gay? That might help.

• 7 Texas Philip // Apr 2, 2009 at 7:08 AM

  This is yet another example of the rapidly developing assault on out First Amendment, and other constitutional rights in the US. From the passage of the Patriot Act, to the current pending legislation regarding search of computers for un-copyrighted files, and now to this example, we are close than ever to losing some of the most fundamental rights that were put into place to assure our freedom and right to privacy. I wish you success in your pending litigation.

• 8 Ziggy // Apr 2, 2009 at 8:18 AM

  Maybe you people should wait until the other side of the story is heard before you leap to judgment. Read the background on Pataky. He’s certainly no choirboy. He’s been indicted. He’s made violent threats unrelated to this police issue.

  The judge saw the evidence before granting the search warrant. He saw what you didn’t.

  This kind of raid is exactly what happens during a child pornography investigation, for example.

  This could very easily be another Tawana Brawley situation. People there jumped to conclusions before the facts were heard. When the truth came out, the truth made fools of them.

• 9 ClintJCL // Apr 2, 2009 at 8:39 AM

  And yet, if you follow up on most stories after the sensationalist initial period is over, Ziggy, you will find the police in the wrong most of the time. Which means it is a statistically safe bet to assume the police are in the wrong.

• 10 jimmy // Apr 2, 2009 at 9:21 AM

  Ziggy must be another lying cop, trying to cover their ass.

  Pataky has no criminal background, has never had a criminal background and only has some 30-40 police reports filed against him from a bitter, lonely ex-wife who can’t move on. His “crime” was picking a bad wife.

  The man actually is a choir boy and doesn’t have so much as a parking ticket.

• 11 $@bs // Apr 2, 2009 at 9:22 AM

  This is so disturbing and yet has the makings of a fantastic made for TV mini-series…

• 12 Packratt // Apr 2, 2009 at 10:28 AM

  Thanks for putting this one out there, I appreciate that.

• 13 Yizmo Gizmo // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:27 AM

  This has gotta backfire on the jackboots, right?
  Now outraged bloggers are write stuff about these events and subpoena documents and post them online just for fun.

• 14 Ziggy // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:57 AM

  “the police in the wrong most of the time”

  “another lying cop, trying to cover their ass”

  Some of you people ought to substitute the word “Jew” or “Black” for “police” in your comments and see how they read.

  I imagine you would be outraged if someone said “Jews are dishonest” just because a few Jews broke the law. You would be furious if someone said “Blacks are criminals” just because a few Blacks committed a crime. You would be angry if someone said “gays are child molesters” because a few gays are pedophiles.

  Yet you assume without even seeing all the facts that the police are in the wrong.

  That’s called prejudice.

  Then you defame anyone who disagrees with you.

  That’s called bigotry.

• 15 Packratt // Apr 2, 2009 at 12:02 PM

  Ziggy,

  I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest that all cops are bad or that they all lie… I’d hope we all know better than that.

  However, there is a flaw in your line of reasoning in that it’s an apples to oranges comparison.

  A black person didn’t choose to be black, a jewish person does not choose their heritage. However, a police officer does choose their career path and a career can always be changed. That happens all the time in fact, people change lines of work all the time.

  If police officers wish not to be evenly yoked with the reputations left to them by corrupt or misbehaving officers and those who cover for them, perhaps more should step up to push those problematic officers out of the profession.

  Otherwise, your suggestion that we shouldn’t consider all officers as a risk because of the behavior that is tolerated by most of them would be the same as you suggesting that we shouldn’t consider all gang members as being criminal simply because most participate in criminal activities.

• 16 B // Apr 2, 2009 at 12:24 PM

  A big-money lawsuit and settlement will teach them. UNBELIEVABLE.

  How about security guards who think they’re Gestapo? A new trend? http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=168421

• 17 JP // Apr 2, 2009 at 12:51 PM

  Have you read the contents of his site? He was cyberstalking the police officers.

  They had a right to raid him.

• 18 Johnny Jacobs // Apr 2, 2009 at 1:19 PM

  I agree with JP – It would be one thing if Pataky had taken the moral high road and maintained a professional tone, but the articles are filled with childish vitriol, name-calling, and playground taunts. This calls into question the veracity of his sources. I agree it’s cyberstalking, and the man-child Pataky deserves the consequences. That said, I have little doubt there is plenty wrong with the Phoenix police.

• 19 Ziggy // Apr 2, 2009 at 1:35 PM

  “a police officer does choose”

  Bigotry and prejudice are behaviors vested in a perpetrator, not in his or her victims. People choose to be Catholics, register as Democrats, convert to Judiasm, and so forth. Their choices do not excuse those who commit prejudice and bigotry against them.

  “I don’t think I’ve seen anyone suggest that all cops are bad”

  The two comments I quoted, amongst others here on many threads, suggest otherwise.

  “the behavior that is tolerated by most of them”

  Allow me to point out a sweeping generalization right there.

• 20 diomedesxx // Apr 2, 2009 at 2:28 PM

  Ziggy, are you not jumping to conclusions yourself in asserting that Patacky was indited previously and that he has made threats? Nearly everyone makes threats, everyday. Most of the times those making threats are the police, threatening to arrest you if you don’t comply. Aren’t you being prejudiced by asserting that police are always in the right when concerns are raised about their conduct?

  JP, were he cyberstaling, blogger would have cut him off and pulled it offline. Cyberstalking is against their TOS.

  All that aside, the conduct of the police certainly is odd. One the bright side, this may motivate more people to consider hidden off-site storage for backups.

• 21 Dave B // Apr 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM

  JP,

  We as citizens have the right to be fully informed about the activities, especially corrupt activities about our own law enforcement.

  The policemen that are releasing this information from the inside are the true heroes of the community. Recognize that.

• 22 the bulldog // Apr 2, 2009 at 3:50 PM

  “a big money lawsuit will teach them”…
  no it wont…the #$@& cops dont have to pay the money out of their pockets! they should! when you fuck up YOU have to pay! when they fuck up, YOU have to pay! its bullshit…

• 23 bigherm // Apr 2, 2009 at 4:48 PM

  So quick question ziggy:

  someone points a gun at you, you dont know if its loaded or not.

  Are you going to assume its safe and empty?
  or
  Would you assume its loaded and your in trouble?

  the fact of the matter is that while not ALL cops are corrupt/liars (ive met many that i respect and are in general just good people), ENOUGH of them are for me to assume right off the bat when dealing with one that he/she is.

  so drop the ‘holier than thou’ crap, and stop attempting to sound intelligent. You fail, sorry.

• 24 perlhaqr // Apr 2, 2009 at 4:56 PM

  TrueCrypt or PGP are great ideas, but seriously folks, OFF SITE BACKUPS.

• 25 jla1125 // Apr 2, 2009 at 6:16 PM

  Maricopa County! Jurisdiction of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Why am I not surprised?

  http://www.arpaio.com/

• 26 Scott Chamness // Apr 2, 2009 at 6:56 PM

  I’m with perlhaqr. All my critical information I have to live with, I have 2 backups, one right beside my desk, the other somewhere nobody could ever find it. Not that I’ve needed it yet.

  This whole thing frightens me. The charges look totally bogus, although “computer tampering with the intent to harass”, sounds like they’re calling him a hacker. That amuses me.

  Don’t blame the judge who signed the search too much, they totally run off the officer’s words as to what is happening.

• 27 Carlos Miller // Apr 2, 2009 at 7:12 PM

  I’m sorry, Scott, but the judge needs to be held just as accountable if not more.

  His job is to think critically when asked for a warrant, not just to buy every word they say.

  He is sworn by the Constitution, not by the police badge.

• 28 Donny Osmond // Apr 2, 2009 at 7:36 PM

  In response to “The Bulldog” – actually Pataky is going after personal assets. He filed suit in Federal court, bypassing state and local. A Section 1983 claim (civil rights violation) allows for the claim on personal assets.

  The suit was filed against Mr. & Mrs. Jack Harris, Mayor & Mrs. Phil Gordon, City Manager Frank & Mrs. Fairbanks, etc…and is currently against a dozen or so cops. The new claim and raid on his home will include another dozen or so cops and their spouses. Part of the Discovery will be all their Community Property assets. Since AZ is Community Property state, on can imagine that there are a lot of cops trying to hide their assets right now!

  A section 1983 claim is personal. An individual can’t hide behind an entity (like the City of Phoenix). It is an interesting maneuver that required a good attorney that could wrap a tort claim around a section 1983 claim.

  Theoretically, there could be dozens of attorneys representing the defendants but the Federal judge will have to sort it all out. The judge assigned is out of Alaska and is named Russel Holland. He is best known for being the judge in the case on the Exxon Valdez oil spill and was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

  We have a copy of the suit and it can be found under Jeffrey Pataky v. City of Phoenix, et. al, CV 09-534-PHX-DKD. It is difficult to get and one needs special access. It is some 30+ pages long.

• 29 genewitch // Apr 2, 2009 at 8:38 PM

  good article, carlos.

• 30 Scott Chamness // Apr 2, 2009 at 9:18 PM

  Carlos, I’m just saying that the judge was probably not in on this obvious vendetta. He probably just saw it as a simple petty theft case. A judge in a city as big as that probably signs dozens of warrants every day, they can’t put a heavy investigation into all of them. It’s entirely probable that the police lied to him as well.

• 31 Carlos Miller // Apr 2, 2009 at 9:49 PM

  Since when does a petty theft merit a home invasion?

• 32 Chaz // Apr 2, 2009 at 10:04 PM

  This needs to be seen.
  Having backups in the cloud is key.

• 33 HURF DURF // Apr 2, 2009 at 10:40 PM

  @jla1125

  Arpaio has nothing to do with Phoenix police, genius. They’re completely separate entities. County Sheriff/City Cops.

• 34 Carlos Miller // Apr 2, 2009 at 10:41 PM

  HD,

  Yeah, but guess whose jail people end up in when they get arrested by Phoenix PD?

• 35 Scott Chamness // Apr 2, 2009 at 10:46 PM

  Yeah Carlos, guess I see your point.

• 36 John Davis // Apr 2, 2009 at 10:49 PM

  Wow, that is indeed scary! Holy Smokes man, one giant step towards Socialism!

  RT
  http://www.anonymity.us.tc

• 37 larry // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:13 PM

  Great article, but maybe someone’s been watching too much porn. It’s “no HOLDS barred”

• 38 Carlos Miller // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:23 PM

  Larry,

  You busted me. It’s been changed. Now let me get back to my movie.

• 39 Leanne // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:24 PM

  Quote:
  jla1125 // Apr 2, 2009 at 6:16 PM
  Maricopa County! Jurisdiction of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Why am I not surprised?
  http://www.arpaio.com/
  Unquote

  Herein lies the truth. I’m 90 miles north of Phoenix. Been here 4 years in AZ, and most everything is as disturbing as can be. I have an ongoing conversation with my father: ALL PLACES ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. I’ve never lived anywhere like here. And this situation with Arpaio is the most disturbing of all. TODAY it’s being heard in D.C. and something has got to be done. This man is scary. And those that hold with him are SCARY.

  “Not that you can’t find diversity in Phoenix and Maricopa County, it’s just that it scares the bejeezus out of too many local Caucasians.”
  http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/04/live_from_the_capitol_the_hous.php

  None of this surprises me after 4 years here. I hear stories about similar scary cop mindset, for most small towns around here – 90 miles north – too.

  Trouble is… there’s NO work here. No way to get a handhold and escape. Like any good black hole, it sucks you in and you cannot get out.

  I came here to **teach.** Real job, real bennies. Only to find out AZ is tops of the list for fraud in charter schools. School and job were shut down. I’m a straight, ultra hardworking American. Never a run in with any legal entity. Absorbed in Internet, business, and ETHICS. And it is extremely difficult living with the mindset here, who just don’t seem to care about real people. What is truly scary is that, like any good virus, the topic in this blog about Jeff Pataky and his treatment by cops, the topic of Arpaio whose “pink underwear jail” and people who’ve died because of hideous treatments received… it is VIRAL. The boundaries of AZ will not suffice. The mindset will grow unless We, The People do something about it.

  Back to my Dad. Listen, unless you COME here, you will never see what I am saying. All places are NOT equal. There is something very wrong here. It’s my belief that this blog, or yak about Arpaio, are just the tip of the iceberg.

• 40 Ruggy // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:29 PM

  I’m afraid to post my honest opinion.

• 41 karen marie // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:40 PM

  the judge would not have issued the search warrant, that is usually done by a clerk magistrate. depending how chummy they are (and they’re mostly pretty chummy), it’s not a problem getting one issued.

• 42 Sean // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:41 PM

  Hope he owns the P.P.D. after his lawsuit.

  This is beyond messed up.

• 43 Chuck // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:57 PM

  When are cops going to wake up and realize that Bush and his gang of thugs are not in control of the government any more? This kind of crap might have flown back then, but now we have a leadership that understands the importance of civil liberties.

• 44 Carlos Miller // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:26 AM

  Leanne,

  I spent four years in Arizona. And of all the places I’ve lived in the world, and there has been a few, that is the worst place. I hated it.

• 45 just some guy // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:38 AM

  fascism and socialism are not the same… this is directed at the ‘tard above that said one giant step toward socialism… keep politics out of this beck lover!

• 46 Duane Kerzic // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:00 AM

  I don’t have much confidence in Obama doing anything good for civil rights unless you happen to be his aunt.

  Ziggy // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:57 AM

  … Some of you people ought to substitute the word “Jew” or “Black” for “police” in your comments and see how they read.

  I imagine you would be outraged if someone said “Jews are dishonest” just because a few Jews broke the law. You would be furious if someone said “Blacks are criminals” just because a few Blacks committed a crime. You would be angry if someone said “gays are child molesters” because a few gays are pedophiles.

  Yet you assume without even seeing all the facts that the police are in the wrong.

  That’s called prejudice.

  Then you defame anyone who disagrees with you.

  That’s called bigotry.
  

  Ziggy, you need to read some of the decisions by the DOJ and Courts against police departments around the country. Seems cops do the things you mentioned often. Is that were you learned abou it?

• 47 Joannah // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:38 AM

  I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

  Joannah

  http://keyboardpiano.net

• 48 Ryan M. // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:49 AM

  Ziggy,
  Police choose a career that involves having power over other people. It is a choice that they make which is different from being born with a particular genetic background. The fact, that some people resent their desire for power, will never go away. It is something I personally struggle to understand. I wish I could logically comprehend why police would choose a career where they are told to use force against anyone who is even suspected of wrong-doing whether it is causing harm or not.

• 49 Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM

  Since when are bloggers considered journalists? This is what drives me crazy about the Internet and the fact that any old person can publish their writings on a “blog” and call themselves a “journalist.” A real journalist, someone who earned their degree in school, and worked their way up in the field, would never be naive enough to let this happen to them. While I agree, the police invading this man’s home was unjust, and completely outrageous, considering no one should really feel threatened by any “bloggers” for any reason, I don’t think it’s fair to say they’re impeding on his First Amendment rights as a journalist. He’s not a journalist. He’s some middle aged guy posting his rants on the Internet about his issues with the police department, which he only started having issues with after it personally affected him. He was also quick to believe these people sending him stories were also police officers, and went with unreliable sources simply because they added fuel to his fire. That’s not a journalist. He didn’t report facts, he told his personal experiences and backed it up with questionable sources.
  The police force in Phoenix shouldn’t be worried about this guy. The only people he’s going to convince are people who believe everything they read on the Internet, no questions asked. Those people aren’t threats, either. His bitching and moaning or “blogging” is harmless and self-indulgent.

• 50 SamanthaIsDumb // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:32 AM

  Samantha.. You’re about the dumbest person I’ve read on the internet all week. The Constitution doesn’t only protect journalists with freedom of speech. You’re confusing or perhaps combining freedom of the press with freedom of speech, the latter of which applies to all citizens, not just journalists. And going by the Merriam Webster definition of a “journalist” as seen here:

  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/journalist

  “1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience2: a person who keeps a journal”

  It’s not about schooling or working for a company or whatever you’ve come to think defines someone who writes for the masses and keeps a journal (whether it be on paper or the internet). Now, shutup already and start paying attention.

• 51 Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:40 AM

  I realize that it applies to all citizens, which is why I said “his rights AS A JOURNALIST.” Perhaps you should start paying attention. And throwing out a dictionary definition? Come on. When you’ve gone to school for your bachelor’s in journalism, then I’ll listen to you. Otherwise, nothing you have to say is worth reading. “SamanthaIsDumb?” Wow, you really got me. Merriam Webster? What an argument! You’ve completely changed my opinion. Really.

• 52 Andrew DeFilippis // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:57 AM

  Samantha, journalism does not require a degree. There are many a journalist that did not spend thousands of dollars to go to college to “learn how to research” about journalism. In my opinion, college gives you the tools and knowledge to teach yourself, and yes, I am currently attending college.

  You do not need a degree to be able to write and report, which is what most journalists and bloggers do. They research something, for instance, current events, and then they write about it.

  In my opinion, the idea of journalism surrounds anyone who writes to inform people.

• 53 Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:00 AM

  Bloggers write about their opinions. Journalists report facts, and try to be as objective as possible. No, you don’t need a degree to be a successful journalist. But you don’t need an ounce of intelligence to be considered a blogger, either.

• 54 Carlos Miller // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:01 AM

  Samantha,

  What are you talking about? You are the first person to bring up the word journalist in this conversation.

  If you are referring to me, I do have a degree in journalism and I did work my way up the ranks in the mainstream media before I went independent.

  And the truth is, journalists do not have any special First Amendment rights that non-journalists do not have.

• 55 Jaap // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:38 AM

  John Davis wrote :” Wow, that is indeed scary! Holy Smokes man, one giant step towards Socialism!”

  This would never have happened in Sweden, Denmark or Holland, these countries have much more freedom and protection from the state than the US has nowadays. Socialism is as bad as capitalism when there is no democracy. But if there is democracy than Socialism is probably more humane.

• 56 I love idiots // Apr 3, 2009 at 4:00 AM

  Samantha,

  You made me spit my coffee all over my screen with this comment.

  “A real journalist, someone who earned their degree in school”

  That’s just the funniest thing I have ever read and it really shows you are quite naive.

• 57 Greg // Apr 3, 2009 at 5:09 AM

  Ha, Ha.
  Cops are always right, didn’t you know?
  I spent years trying to get the Scam Jose Police to follow the law, and after being arrested for photographing illegally parked police cars, multiple times, finally came to the realization that bad cops are in every police dept, good cops too, but the bad ones work themselves into positions of responsibility … to the detriment of honest citizens. How do you counter lying cops in a court-of-law? Practically impossible.
  And the SJPD doesn’t even try to hide their lawbreaking, you can view Google-Earth at the police dept, and find multiple violations of their parking regulations, right in their parking lot. Only cops can park there!
  To Ziggy – you need a reality check – just screw up once and the cops will never leave you alone. And Samantha – free speech is just that, free, you are taking advantage of it, and so am I. Now if you want documentation of corrupt police or judges, I can help you out after you go to jail, otherwise – BUTT OUT.
  I discovered 3 Judges of an unnamed county committed 10 felonies each, by approving expired bonds, and they subsequently recorded those bonds, so they are FOREVER viewable by anyone with the desire, but at least 1 of the judges are still on the bench – would the US Attorney or FBI do anything about it? Not on your life! At least I still have certified copies, waiting for one of the scoundrels to be appointed to the Federal Bench, they should get the federal noose.

• 58 Bana // Apr 3, 2009 at 6:11 AM

  Samantha is trolling. Obviously a failed journalist hack student, who failed to get a job.

  Look up the definition of journalism. Are witch doctors not doctors because they don’t hold a registered degree from a recognised university?

  You know what sucks though? This is happening everywhere. police are sharing methods between all nations and developing strategies to harrass people more and more. We get murders by police all the time, when they are never charged with a criminal offense…makes me sick.

  Police are nothing more than organised criminals. I will never aid police in any investigation they might have. Period.

• 59 Cristian // Apr 3, 2009 at 6:17 AM

  United we stand, divided we fall.
  Unless we don’t take any initiative to punish those assholes, in absolutely any legal way we can, it will definitely and inevitably happen again to one of us. It’s simply how the world works and the inevitability and obviousness really really hurts.

• 60 RC // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:08 AM

  Well Ariz., no surprise, one of the last strongholds of Right-wing neo-con way of wanting the world to be, can’t stop the fight against these wackos, otherwise it’ll be the peoples republic of the US, not China, cheers

• 61 Voice of Reason // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:21 AM

  It’s refreshing to read a thread about this kind of thing that resembles an actual debate. There’s some name calling and acrimonious remarks, but the moderator has apparently filtered out the worst of it.

  I’d like to ask Ziggy and other police officers or conservatives to continue posting on this site. It would be more productive, though, if they’d address specifics when possible. One police officer who was a regular on a Usenet discussion group many years ago said things like “everybody tars the police with the same brush, and that’s unfair”, and Ziggy reminds me of him. I feel the same way about Ziggy’s remarks that I felt about similar remarks back in the Usenet days. They don’t address the most significant issues.

  From my point of view, police aren’t similar to blacks, or Jews, or other groups that are stereotyped, and it’s not just because professions are voluntary, as another poster has pointed out.

  Inappropriate stereotypes about the police do exist, and I acknowledge this. I was surprised to heard one of them from somebody who’s a strong conservative. He said that all police were on steroids, and that’s why they injure and kill so many innocent people. I thought the statement was nonsense. Some police behave the way they do because of steroid use, but it couldn’t possibly be a majority.

  I’ve also seen claims that most police choose their profession because they want to dominate or control people. Somebody said something like that on this thread. Also nonsense. Sometimes it’s true. I knew somebody who was a bit of a sociopath when he was young. He talked in a cold, deliberate, even frightening way. I didn’t realize that he’d sounded exactly like a LEO at the age of 12 until he became one a decade later. It was his calling. He rose far in the years that followed. However, I also know about an Iraq war veteran who’s trying to become a police officer right now because he can’t get a regular job. The second situation is far more common.

  That said, police are different from other minority groups for two important reasons. Stereotypes aren’t the issue. I’m referring to simple facts.

  First, of course, in the United States, police have been granted the generally unquestioned right to kill people, whether or not the killings are justified. If they kill somebody that they shouldn’t have killed, in most cases nothing’s going to happen unless there’s video, and even then, the odds are good that the department involved will simply “dirty up” the victim. In fact, the New Year’s Day 2009 shooting of Oscar Grant and the 2006 shooting of 92 year old Kathryn Johnson are the only major exceptions that I remember reading about in recent years. In Grant’s case, there was a widely distributed video of the killing, and in Johnson’s case, well, she was 92 years old. These incidents were embarrassing to the departments involved. In both cases, “dirtying up” the victim would have backfired.

  For an example of “dirtying up” (or “dirty them up”, alternate usage), see Ziggy’s postings. Ziggy used the phrase “no choirboy”, and that was interesting. It’s the phrase that NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani used to characterize Patrick Dorismond, who was shot and killed because he refused to purchase drugs from undercover police. Exactly the same words. As an interesting side note, Dorismond had, in fact, been a choirboy.

  The second difference is that society grants police another special privilege. This is the most important point. The police are allowed and even pressured to say things that aren’t true, no matter how serious the issue.

  For example, in the past, after the police shot an unarmed man, teenager, or child, “throwdowns” were standard operating procedure. You’d drop a gun next to the dead person and you’d say that he was pointing it at you. The practice hasn’t ended completely. There’s a news story out tonight about the killing of a teenager named Fong Lee. In this case, the police officer involved made the mistake of using a “throwdown” that wasn’t anonymous. He took it right out of the evidence locker. It’s a surprising error, doubly surprising because “throwdowns” have been deemphasized over the past 10 to 15 years. These days, rookies are taught to say that they thought the victim might be hiding a gun, even if the victim was handcuffed or naked at the time. It’s a safer claim, and it’s every bit as effective as the use of a “throwdown”. More effective, actually, because the claim can’t be disproven.

  The reason that the second difference, the right to lie, is more important than the right to kill with impunity is that lying comes up far more often. Dorismond-style killings happen continuously, but only on a national scale. If you look at individual precincts, that kind of thing is quite rare. However, arrest reports and evidence are falsified as a matter of course every day in every major precinct. It’s not unusual or unexpected. In fact, a well-intentioned police officer who refuses to falsify an arrest report when it’s deemed necessary faces pressure, threats, and termination. He’s breaking the “code”, and he’ll pay the price. Is there a police officer out there who genuinely believes that this isn’t true? Remember, I’m referring to major precincts, and to arrest reports and evidence related to all types of cases, including both major and minor cases.

  Before you answer, look up the arrest of Father James Manship. They dropped the charges just a week or two back, because he had a video which demonstrated that the arresting officer had lied. Not made a minor mistake on the report. Lied about the entire thing. Made it up out of thin air. The crucial point is that, as far as I know, the officer involved hasn’t been arrested, prosecuted, or disciplined in any way for the falsified report. In fact, the city hired a well-known attorney to back the officer up. The fact that the officer hasn’t been disciplined, and the fact that this kind of thing comes to light quite often, suggests that what I’m saying is accurate. If the police don’t have a culture that tolerates and even encourages lying, why aren’t the officers that falsify reports prosecuted? I’d be interested in hearing a LEO’s answer, as long as it discusses specifics.

  If police participation on this site is going to be useful, arguments such as “the police are unfairly stereotyped” or “the victim was a bad person” (i.e., “dirtying up”) should be avoided. There should be more discussion about the “code”, i.e., lying to protect yourself or fellow officers, and how the average LEO genuinely feels about it.

• 62 anon // Apr 3, 2009 at 8:01 AM

  The police are nothing more then a mere gang, with power inside the system, to do whatever they wish, when police mistreat citizen in Italy, The people react by attacking the police at their homes, and even in some cases Molotov their homes while they are sleeping. hmmm appears we need a little bit of citizen justice here in america.

• 63 Ichiben // Apr 3, 2009 at 8:28 AM

  Thank you very much for providing a window to the larger world here in the United States. These types of injustices have to be exposed to more people so that they can realized the extent of the police state that this country has become. I’m sick of the prison/police/court cottage industry that has nothing to do with justice but everything to do with punishment for profit.

• 64 Nick // Apr 3, 2009 at 8:35 AM

  Anyone going against big brother needs to educate themselves on how to use truecrypt.

  It provides a secret partition, within an encrypted partition leaving plausible doubt.

  Also, ALWAYS have a failover set up in another country. IE: Korean Webhosting, Chinese, etc

• 65 Bookfreak // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:08 AM

  I knew a cop pretty well a number of years ago. I would say that cops I met through him were by and large good and upstanding – at least in regards to themselves. But I have never heard of him or any other cop telling on their fellow police officers who do wrong. They close ranks. It is their job to uphold the law, regardless if they work for the same police department. So if they don’t turn in their fellow cops for bad conduct, that makes them bad cops.

• 66 Jason // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:08 AM

  Those cops shot themselves in the foot(no pun intended). If he cant pay his taxes now, then the police force cant get payed. In a backwards way, it’s time to celebrate!

• 67 TrueCryptCritic // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:54 AM

  @Andrew DeFilippis

  There is a LOT of controversy surrounding the TrueCrypt program. Critics of the program have genuine questions about the actual authors of the program and whether the program is actually safe to use. Some people believe the program is tainted and may actually contain code that has a backdoor. Please do research on this program before using it. I would not put my faith in TrueCrypt without doing a LOT of investigation first.

• 68 bill // Apr 3, 2009 at 10:05 AM

  http://www.nowpublic.com/world/gestapo-usa-govt-funded-vigilante-network-terrorizes-america?page=14

• 69 Guy // Apr 3, 2009 at 10:27 AM

  Its sad but he is so well known to the people with power that he should just move out of town.

• 70 jesus // Apr 3, 2009 at 10:46 AM

  fuck those cops, i hope they fkn die

• 71 Serj // Apr 3, 2009 at 10:49 AM

  O man, if they do that just because of a blog!! pfff! you must have really good content, hahaha. they wone just a battle, not the war . Maybe thru your blog they will see that a badge does not offer protection from stupidity.

• 72 Thomas // Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM

  There are other encryption methods out there besides TrueCrypt. They all have their pluses and minuses. But things like this make it even more imperative to make frequent backups and keep them offsite at an undisclosed location – the full drive image. That way, if you are raided, and they seize everything, you can get a new machine and be back up and running in less than 24 hours. Those who intend to “grab the dragon’s tail” on a regular (principled) basis need to do this.

• 73 Mr. Spooge // Apr 3, 2009 at 11:13 AM

  The Police had a right to raid his house because he said mean things about them?

  Whatever happened to “sticks and stones…”?

  Crap, even a Kindergartener can respond better than the Police did in this case. Their motives are HIGHLY questionable, given their relationship.

• 74 Brian // Apr 3, 2009 at 11:25 AM

  Keep strong, don’t let corruption get you down. I’d be insanely mad in your situation. I wish you had a donate button, I’d gladly throw you a few bucks to help you fight these cops.

• 75 American Patriot // Apr 3, 2009 at 11:47 AM

  Answer: Arizona, Texas, Florida

  Question: What are 3 states in which you not only do not want to live, but don’t want to ever pass through. Go around, fly over, tunnel under…but do not EVER set foot in any one of them.

• 76 Anton // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:02 PM

  I went to stickerjunkie dot com and made some “Welcome to America, Now Put Your Hands Up!” stickers… This country is going right down the drain.

• 77 maggie // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:05 PM

  So why do these people keep the backups and all their important papers at home when they do things like this? I keep it all in safety deposit boxes so if it ever happens, they won’t get much more than the ratty, OLD computer used here at home.
  If you’re going to run blogs of this nature, then by all means, keep the backups and your personal files elsewhere under lock and key. And DO NOT tell anyone where they are.

• 78 LZ // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:05 PM

  You need to use Offsite backups

• 79 Liberty // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:26 PM

  Thanks for bringing this story to light Carlos. I am saddened (but not surprised) to hear about these regular abuses of power and infringement of citizens rights in Phoenix, AZ.

• 80 Cameron // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:28 PM

  You Fuckin Pigs…..

  Your time is coming, always.

• 81 Gregg // Apr 3, 2009 at 12:34 PM

  This is all about the First Amendment. Let’s not follow the gov’t down the path of censorship. After all, censorship is becoming America’s favorite past-time. The US gov’t (and their corporate friends), already place protesters in fenced-in cages, ban books like “America Deceived” from Wikipedia, Amazon and Facebook, and shut down Ron Paul. Free Speech forever, especially for blogs.
  Last link (before Google Books caves to pressure and drops the title):
  http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000083883

• 82 Jhonny Castro // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:16 PM

  Phoenix, Arizona is a shit hole.
  If you have a brain. Move away!

• 83 Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:23 PM

  Carlos, the first sentence of this article brings up journalists. That’s why I commented on it.

  And we’re back to looking up definitions. Alright, here is Webster’s definition of weblog: “a personal Web site that provides updated headlines and news articles of other sites that are of interest to the user, also may include journal entries, commentaries and recommendations compiled by the use.”
  Now, here is another (because there are many, which is why it seems pointless to use definitions as an argument) definition of journalism: The style of writing characteristic of material in newspapers and magazines, consisting of direct presentation of facts or occurrences with little attempt at analysis or interpretation.

  The only similarities between the definitions of blogs and journalism are that they both present news. Bloggers present news from other sources and comment about it. Their agenda is to share news with people, but also simply to voice their opinion and hope that other people care enough to read it. Journalists are reporting news, with sources, and from an objective point of view.
  That is, if we’re just basing this all off of what the dictionaries say.
  This debate could go around in circles, and now I don’t know why I bothered starting it because I realize journalism has been a travesty for a long, long time and this proves it even more so. It’s a joke.

• 84 yourscrewed // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:36 PM

  Screw AZ, move to CA.

  Once we are all able to snap .jpegs with our eyes and upload them instantly to the web, all bad cops are screwed.

  Only the good can’t be exposed.

• 85 Carlos Miller // Apr 3, 2009 at 1:40 PM

  Samantha,

  Of all the issues to debate on this thread, I can’t understand why you’ve chosen this one.

  If you are going to bring up my lede sentence, then you should also acknowledge that I specifically said it was a “blogger” whose house was raided.

  That is also how I defined him in the headline.

  I mentioned journalists in the lede because contrary to what you believe, if the cops raid a blogger, what is going to stop them from raiding the home of a journalist?

  And I don’t know what edition of Webster’s Dictionary you are using but the truth is, there is not necessarily a clear line dividing journalists from bloggers.

  Many journalists are bloggers and many bloggers are journalists, and many bloggers are not journalists and many journalists are not bloggers.

  The truth is, journalism is in an ever-evolving state. The fact that the definition you posted mentions only “newspapers and magazines” demonstrates that it clearly needs to be updated to include websites whether or not they are blogs.

  In this case, the blogger never claimed he was a journalist.

  I specifically stated he was a “software engineer” in the third sentence to clear up any confusion anybody might have.

  Obviously, there is still some confusion.

  Regardless of what his profession is, he is still guaranteed the same First Amendment rights that protect journalists.

• 86 reader // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:19 PM

  Samantha, please shut up… you’re just dragging the crap out. You have posted nothing relevant to the discussion.

  If you want to debate the definitions of journalists vs bloggers please create a topic somewhere and bugger off.

• 87 Michael // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM

  Samantha’s nitpicking is entirely non-topical to the question of whether civil rights have been violated in this case. Instead she seems determined to have a conversation on how poor internet journalistic ethos are to blame for the death of dead tree reporting. Um, wrong thread Sam?

• 88 Robert // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM

  Why not put microphones in thoes pricks badges? Maybe 4 the same reasons the dash-cam went out of style! Sam I tried to read your last post but, please this is about freedom, whats the diffination of that?

• 89 Lmfao // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:43 PM

  Poor Samantha no idea on real life quite pathetic really, please keep your stupid comments to yourself as you are damaging your credibility if you ever had any.

• 90 Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:49 PM

  The dictionary I used said it was revised in 2006, I thought the same thing about just mentioning newspapers and magazines. Newspapers and magazines turned to the Internet as a medium even before 2006, and print publications like these have become more and more obsolete as technology has advanced. I was going to comment on that, though. Thanks for bringing it up. It’s another good example of why definitions aren’t necessarily useful in a debate because there’s different interpretations and what not. I just read this article at 3 am in a sleep deprived state and recently got into it with someone about this, so it was fresh in my mind.
  It sparked quite a debate on here, though. Even some name calling. That’s why I rarely bother commenting on articles because people like to turn it into an Internet fight, rather than simply debate back and forth. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, just stating my opinions.
  I admire any journalist who can intelligently write about a topic, use facts, and be subjective in a less obvious way. One of my favorite writers is Hunter Thompson, and personally I feel like there hasn’t been anyone as innovative or truly thought provoking in journalism or writing, but even he hated being called a journalist and despised the whole idea of it when he first started out. I realize “Gonzo journalism” is a whole different topic, just wanted to bring it up, because I do realize not all journalism is objective, not even when it’s supposed to be. It’s hard for any good and passionate writer not to let their feelings or opinions about a topic show through in their articles. I just feel that there’s too many bloggers out there who seem to just bitch and moan about current events and what have you, rather than trying to get their personal views across to the reader in a way that will be thought-provoking.
  Your writing on here isn’t bad by any means, I was never trying to say that. I realize I’m generalizing bloggers (and even journalism, too), but only because I haven’t come across very many clever ones since the Internet is available for anyone to publish whatever they want.
  I never disagreed with you about the Phoenix police being unjust in raiding this man’s home. It wasn’t warranted at all and it is frightening to think that a person can have their rights taken away so easily over something so minor. I lived in Chicago for awhile, I’ve definitely seen a corrupt police force. Most of the unethical things they do go unreported unless someone catches wind of it and it ends up in the news, but they do everything they can to protect their officers, even if they have to lie in order to do so. It makes sense why these police in Phoenix felt so threatened by this guy. But, it doesn’t make sense to raid his home and it just proves that this guy was right, otherwise they wouldn’t get so upset over it. It’s not like the general public isn’t aware of how corrupt police forces are, especially in bigger cities.

• 91 Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM

  And I just saw all these new responses after writing that, and I think it’s funny that “Lmfao” is telling me to keep my comments to myself, but isn’t this all about freedom of speech? Way to lose your credibility. I’m not responding anymore, no matter how much I try to get my point across, there’s still going to be responses like this, telling me I’m stupid and blah blah blah. This is why I rarely even comment on these sort of things, like I said, there’s always people who want to just be “mean” over the Internet and hide behind their computer screen, and it’s okay. I guess I should just start name calling and trying to make people feel stupid to get my point across, rather than have an intelligent debate over anything when it comes to the Internet. Seems hypocritical to tell me to shut up and then go on to defend people’s right to free speech. Keep it up!

• 92 Angelique // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:02 PM

  This is truely what our country is coming to. I personally was attacked by an officer while he was on duty. (after a traffic stop, and I had never had a ticket in my LIFE) The dept covered it up for him, and finally let him go after a year (thank GOD, so he could not do it to anyone else, or perhaps he had during that year and that may be why they finally let him go). They said officially he “retired” (he was 28, with only a couple of years on the force).
  So believe me, the cops cover up PLENTY. The more bloggers expose them, the better off we all will be for it!

• 93 reader // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:08 PM

  OK we got it Samantha, now please stop posting instead of talking about not posting.

• 94 Montagraph // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:09 PM

  I think the reason why they raided this guy is because Too many secrets were being leaked to the public! Plus, the Phoenix Police wanted to find out where the leaks were coming from, this is why they snatched up all of the computers – so that they could trace back all of the leaks! It is sad that 90% of ALL police and Govt officials are corrupt, in my opinion!!!

• 95 Bonny // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:15 PM

  “Otherwise, your suggestion that we shouldn’t consider all officers as a risk because of the behavior that is tolerated by most of them”

  Gotta love people who pull crap using “most of them” level evidence. You might as well be a police officer saying, “We should consider all blacks a risk because of the behavior that is tolerated by most of them.” Hilarious prejudice against police you got there, sure hope you’re fine with everyone else using that same level of prejudice against people like yourself.

• 96 bosunj // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:18 PM

  Hey Ziggy! In my opinion you are a rat b@st@rd no good fv<king cvnt! Pi$$ off! Fascist wanker!

• 97 x // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:36 PM

  What do you call a mafia without fashion sense?

  cops

• 98 nextwewin // Apr 3, 2009 at 4:05 PM

  Samantha, I have to chime in here too. One doesn’t need credentials to do certain things and journalism is and should remain one of them. In fact we would be much better off about now if we simply got rid of the suites on television and the editors of newspapers and let public pressure dictate news content. Ooooh, they went to J-school to become a star reporter. I’d follow anyone whose heart is in the right place regardless of their credentials, use discernment. We can figure out the relative truth or veracity of the information ourselves, thats the way it’s supposed to be. Who were the journalists back in the early days of the country? Anyone who could write well and had a desire to tell a story to the public. Eventually it became commonplace for those to have a newspaper affiliation. Citizens are the media, citizens are the power and citizens are the ones that will take back this country.

• 99 Larry Glick // Apr 3, 2009 at 4:15 PM

  Americans should realize that we have entered the era of the Fourth Reich which will make Nazi Germany look like child’s play by comparison.

• 100 Bill // Apr 3, 2009 at 5:00 PM

  Samantha // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:00 AM

  “Bloggers write about their opinions. Journalists report facts, and try to be as objective as possible. No, you don’t need a degree to be a successful journalist. But you don’t need an ounce of intelligence to be considered a blogger, either.”

  Samantha, please share what you are smoking with the rest of us. Journalists report facts and try to be as objective as possible? HAHAHAHAHAHA! Where have you been girl, I haven’t read a news story in the lame stream media written by one of your so-called “journalists” that was 1) factual or 2) objective in twenty years! You are one weird cookie, albeit a hysterical one.

• 101 Ridiculousness // Apr 3, 2009 at 6:42 PM

  @ Samantha

  Wait, so only bloggers state their “opinions?” Sounds like you need to go back to journalism school, because there’s something called an “editorial” which is a journalist or editor’s OPINION on a piece of news. Look around at all the instances of the major media outlets “editorializing” their front page (i.e., the hard-news, no nonsense, all-facts section of the paper, supposedly), and you will see that, if anything, bloggers are more honest than print journalists because they always admit it’s their opinion, rather than presenting talking points and other unprofessional nonsense as “fact.” Of course, there’s also the point that this guy never said he was a journalist. I used to major in journalism, ironically the idealism of my teacher is part of what convinced me to give up any contribution to the media conglomerate. Also, Hunter S. Thompson was her hero too.

• 102 anonymous // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM

  “Robert // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:41 PM

  Why not put microphones in thoes pricks badges?…”

  Are you kidding me? how is this suggestion any different from putting cameras on the streets to control citizens? you are suggesting the very things you fight against… too many stupid people, that’s whats wrong with America. Great article, and great discussion.

• 103 Adrian Eden // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:03 PM

  When will there be real justice? The police are the thugs of the gov’t, the gov’t is controlled by private investors and wealthy people, the world is corrupt as hell. Normal citizens have to live within all of these stupid laws we do not even agree too, we are forced to conform, while others do not have too just because they have money.

  I do not rely on anyone or anything for support, the only people you can trust in this world are yourself and maybe your family, but not always.

  This is a dog eat dog world with cut throat tactics.

  Always remember, that behind the police badge is a human being, who bleeds and feels pain just like everyone else.

• 104 A Concerned Citizen // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:16 PM

  This story sounds terrible, 4th Amendment rights are just as important as the 1st, and no one’s home should ever be violated without due cause. However, I’m hesitant to immediately criticize the Phoenix Police Department without all of the facts. Judge Donahoe issued a search warrant and unless more information comes out about a violation of due process, the police’s actions are legal and correct.

  I encourage everyone to create and keep a distinction between Bad Cops and all of the other Cops. Bad People may become part of a police force but joining the police does not make one a bad person. The ideals of the police are to protect, serve and defend, and these are wholly admirable. We’re all disappointed with the conduct of a few individuals, not the system as a whole.
  The best way to improve a system is not complaining or ranting on the internet; it’s to join the system and change it from the inside. Become a police officer or actively encourage upstanding, courageous young citizens to do so. We, the people, are the government and it’s police force and these institutions are exactly what we make of them. The fact that the blog BadPhoenixCops receives detailed information from ethical, selfless individuals in the Phoenix PD is entirely encouraging to me.
  I join the Marine Corps six years ago; I do not inherit all of the system’s imperfections and I certainly can’t change the world all by myself, but I will make sure that wherever I am, no one is hurt that doesn’t need to be. I encourage you to do the same in Phoenix.

• 105 Herman Hester // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:28 PM

  I’m here to tell you people and i’m talking about in the Phoenix area if you just sit back and allow this to stand then it’s your failure to act. The police work for us we don’t work for them. Go complain to the mayor or anyone else you can find. If you start throwing their asses out of office then someone will get the message

• 106 Ryan J // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:33 PM

  Wow, I’m really sorry about this. It seems like the police feel that they can do whatever they want these days. It is about time to have some more civilian oversight. I believe in a surveillance society; one where the citizens have the cameras. Hold the right people accountable and this stuff wont be happening.

• 107 Greg // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:37 PM

  Bye, Bye Samantha. Where did Ziggy go?

  Boy, this discussion reminds me of a few of the times when a cop was blatently lying to a jury. One time, we caught the cop “jury tampering” which was really only having a discussion with some jurors during a break in his testimony. Which is a no-no, but in subsequent hearings in the judge’s chambers, caught him in 3 blatent lies, directly contradicted by 3 jurors testimony. When we left the judge’s chambers, I asked the D.A. if he was going to prosecute the cop for perjury (a felony) and he said, no, he was going to convict me of my 2 misdemeanors, and he did.
  When the jurors read my guilty verdict, several were crying … they knew it was a travesty, but they thought I must be a bad fellow, why else would the cops be so intent on convicting me?
  Another time, 4 cops jumped me, in the police parking lot, and then sat in the cell next to mine and combined their imaginations to create a completely false police report, so that all 4 reports were almost word-for-word identical, I was charged with attacking 4 police with a ball-point-pen (I was actually writing down license plates of illegally parked cars) proving to me that “the pen is mightier than the sword.” (They were all “heavily” armed.) What kind of IDIOT would attack 4 cops with a pen? Needless to say, the vidiotape of the incident was “accidently” destroyed, I pled down to “fighting in public.”
  Carlos, keep up the good fight, from my perspective, it is only starting …

  See my blog … Our Police State Needs More Police … ourpolicestate.blogspot.com
  Remember … it’s OUR POLICE STATE … we “wanted” it, now we’re getting it, right up the A$$.

• 108 Police State // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:40 PM

  There is no difference between cops and gangsters.

• 109 Johnny Colorado // Apr 3, 2009 at 8:20 PM

  stupid, stupid, stupid cops…what the hell? All the negative news lately about cops on power trips and now this.

  Instead of bailing out the banking system, we should be bailing out the legal system. Either get the pigs some proper training or get rid of them. And that corrupt judge? I say get him off of the bench and take away his pension.

  FRIGGIN IDIOTS

• 110 Adam // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:39 PM

  The fact of the matter is this was a gross affringement of “civil liberties.” First off the search warrant should have given a specific agenda for the cops i.e. arrest/confiscation. “petty theft” doesn’t warrant a search warrant it warrants that the “victim” of the “alleged” crime bring forth a case to be heard by the courts(pressing charges). As for “computer tampering with intent to harass.” wow so we are assuming without proof based on this statement the man is “going to” harrass (think they made a movie about “precrime”) with no evident crime commited. Innocent until proven guilty?? secondly there is no seperation between judges local lawyers and 911 dispatch. they all work in conjunction making them colleagues (associates) which means the cops knew what they were doing(guilt by association); and if they didn’t know it was wrong then their moral compass is so fucked up they must have been born with one foot already in hell. Constitutional perspective: violation of freedom of speach, detaining the girlfriend violation of habeus corpus, unwarranted removal of private property theft, entering a house on invalid premess breaking and entering. this mans rights were violated so to all you feel gooders wake up cause you know what you might be next.

• 111 Adam // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:40 PM

  excuse me “Infringement.” Dumb construction worker what do you expect.

• 112 Adam // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:43 PM

  sorry for so many posts in a row but these people piss me off. if the cops are good and “just doing their job” then why don’t they do something about the tweakers in my area that break into stores and houses and steal shit from us. no no no they don’t have any money. thats why. most of the stupid fuckers up here understand one thing and one thing only TITLE 46. Keep fighting friend don’t ever back down make them kill you to shut you up.

• 113 wolfboi // Apr 4, 2009 at 12:29 AM

  America sucks… time to TAKE IT BACK

• 114 Kliegl // Apr 4, 2009 at 12:37 AM

  This brings up the question of who polices the police? One can draw comparisons to religious or ethnic minorities, but they fail for reasons mentioned above. Rather, one should compare to other occupations. For instance, there are bad teachers, but their victims are kids who don’t understand why the tests don’t cover the material they learned in class, as opposed to people wrongfully imprisoned.

  As to the journalist versus blogger, I personally dislike the term blogger. Used to be, you had to code your own site, and that required a certain amount of intelligence. Microsoft’s Frontpage was the beginning of the end of the internet being for the people that created it, and instead being for every dumbass with a cable bundle package. A journalist, similar to a reporter, shows what they research and draws some obvious conclusions. A columnist (one who writes editorials) does not have to do any real research, because what he writes is his opinion.

  I would submit that this blogger thinks of himself as writing like a journalist, but actually writes editorials.

  Now, on to the main point. As I understand it, a warrant is issued when there is illegal activity perceived to be going on. Although the indictment and trial procedures are no fun, until you are found guilty, you are innocent of the crime. If you are not found guilty, then all of it goes away, and the state makes amends. This man has had his stuff seized as evidence..he has not yet been found guilty of whatever with which he is charged.

  I would submit to the folks here that they consider where the line is between a person’s job, and a person’s personal life. A government employee’s job comes with a certain amount of scrutiny and oversight on the part of the people….more so that someone privately employed. However, that oversight ends with the job of the public servant, and I think that THIS might be what the police are going after.

  When someone takes off the badge and goes home, you cannot follow him, snoop on him, take pictures of his vehicles or property because, although you have the right to take pictures, you do not have the right to take them of him or his property. I think this “blogger” has failed to properly draw the line between the cop the person, and the cop the job. I also think that he failed to draw the line with regards to professionalism and emotional detachment. This is important, because, in this world of terrorism, and of the second guessers who have to make the head roll of the person to which the question “Why didn’t you see it coming?” is asked, everyone who seems a little unhinged could be the next Unabomber. Yes, you have the right to sound crazy, but the people have the right to be protected from the phony-tough and the crazy-brave, if I may borrow a phrase.

  Oftentimes, with a warrant, you find a token crime they have committed to get in the door, so to speak, then you nail them with what the evidence supports. I do not think the crimes on the warrant will match the crimes he is convicted of, if any.

  Like many things, in this day of electron fast media, the best thing to do is wait to see how it pans out, and form the judgments then.

• 115 Patriot // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:06 AM

  1. Some places in Arizona are worse than others. I was visiting Bouse, Az. in La Paz County and I went to the Post Office. The Sheriff was in the Post Office and actually asked me why I was NOT carrying a firearm. He went on to lecture me that people who do not carry weapons are the cause of crime and corruption.

  I explained to him that I was currently a California resident and did not wish to spend the rest of my natural life in a California Factory Prison, therefore, I did not “carry” anywhere except on my own property.

  Two years after that, the DEA searched my home without a warrant- a common occurrence in Mendocino County, Ca., and stole both of my rifles, my shotgun and my pistol. I had broken no laws, had nothing to do with the drugs they were searching for. My pistol ended up on Craigslist, by the way. I found it by Googling the serial number.

  I filed a complaint with the Sheriff’s Dept., they did nothing and when I went to the District Attorney to file a complaint, his Office would not allow a complaint against the Federal Government. Others had the same problem and were featured in the newspaper- Pre-Bush.

  In fact, when I had previously called the Sheriff’s Dept to report a meth lab that was being illegally run on the acreage that I owned, the Sheriff and the DEA were NOT interested in busting the trespassers, nor in shutting down their meth-lab camp. I suppose that it was because meth-manufacturers are commonly thought of as violent criminals (I think the Police do not want to tangle with violent people who may do them harm) and organic vegetable growers are much safer to harass and oppress.

  I eventually had to face down the drug makers personally and run them off my land. Happily, I have nothing to do with that area or those Public Servants any longer.

  2. Journalists. I don’t mind if Carlos or this other fellow call themselves Journalists, although it would be my choice to term what they do “Investigative Reporting” or something with some validity to it.

  “Journalists” as a species are predominantly as prone to lying, inveigling, obfuscating and inveighing as the Police are. I would not trust either a Journalist or a Police Officer to hold the leash of my dead dog while I looked the other way.

  Samantha is obviously a Master Journalist, because everything she wrote was basically a transparent and bald faced lie. She fits into the category of lame-stream journalism quite well. I don’t get that feeling from Carlos. I feel that I could allow Carlos to hold the leash of a very valuable pet while looking in the other direction.

  3. As I have resigned myself to living the rest of my life in this country (I really have no other country to go to, as I am a Natural Born citizen), I have decided that I will not live as an oppressed person any longer.

  I will never again allow anyone to smash in my front door ($549 at Home Depot) and hold me at gun point while they ransack my house and carry away my belongings that were honestly bought and paid for, under color of their laws. Instead, I will shoot first and bury the evidence on someone else’s property. Sorry, but the fact that we cannot trust the Police in this country any longer has led to this. I do not break laws, I will not be treated as a lawbreaker.

  Police, you are on notice. Your breaking and entering is the same to me as a thief breaking and entering. I would rather die with you than let you get away with it.

  An Ohio Patriot in a County with an excellent Concealed Carry Law.

• 116 Carlos Miller // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:08 AM

  Kliegel,

  But you are falling into the trap of “9/11 changed everything.”

  The blogger in question never has made any threats on his blog towards the officers.

  No, he is just printing information and gossip handed to him by other cops from within the department.

  He is like the paparazzi who do not draw the line between celebrities on the job and celebrities off the job.

  What he is doing is not for everybody.

  But it is not against the law. If it were, then they would have drawn up more serious charges than petty theft and computer harassment.

  When cops arrest people, that person’s personal information becomes public record automatically whether that person is guilty or not.

  So suddenly the tables are turning for the cops and their indiscretions are being publicized.

  The truth is, if they had nothing scandalous going on in their lives, then there would be nothing to publicize.

  But that is not the case.

  What this blogger is doing is pointing out the hypocrisies of the police department.

  You also forgot to mention that they raided him in the midst of a pending lawsuit against them, which leads me to believe they did not confer with the city attorney before the raid.

• 117 wolfboi // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:13 AM

  SAMANTHA… YOU HAVE GOT TO BE THE STUPIDEST MOST CLUELESS “LIKE OH MY GOD” CHICK OUT THERE. YOU ARE DEFINATLY NOT IN COLLEGE, AND IF SO… GET YOUR MONEY BACK!! READING YOUR POSTS ARE HILARIOUS… YOU CONTRODICT YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS OVER AND OVER, AND ITS LIKE YOUR ARE COMPLETELY UNAWARE THAT YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS DON’T “VANISH” WHEN YOU TYPE A NEW ONE… YOU ARE DENYING THINGS YOU WROTE THAT ARE POSTED A FEW POST UP IN BLACK AND WHITE!!! HA HA HA, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?? YOU ARE SO WEIRD… AND NERDY LOL… THANKS FOR A GOOD LAUGH, HA HA. WILL YOU BE MY FRIEND, COLLEGE GIRL “JOURNALIST” BTW, IF YOU EVER WATCH FOX NEWS OR MSNBC IT SAYS “NEWS” AND THEY ARE “JOURNALISTS” AND BY YOUR COLLEGIC DEFINITION…THESE NEWS TYPES REPORT “FACTS” AND TRY TO BE “OBJECTIVE” BIG PROBLEM THERE SAMMI GIRL… 50% IS NEWS “FACTS” AND THE OTHER 50% ARE “OPINIONS ON THE FACTS” AND THE SAME PEOPLE TELL BOTH FACT AND OPINIONS… SEE THATS WHY THERE ARE RIGHT WING NEWS, FOX AND LEFTIES, MSNBC. SAMANTHA, I GOT YOU A SCOLLARSHIP TO COLLEGE SINCE THAT GETS YOUR NIPPLES HARD, ITS “SCREW U”

• 118 Jon Brooks // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:16 AM

  Possibly a setup could be utilized here with ..wireless video..that broadcasts it to another remote spot. By the time they find the hidden video camera and demand the tape or drive, just point out that a friend is taking it to your lawyer even as you speak having been told to when the taping was stopped or the camera destroyed or confiscated. In fact a radio/microphone could be imbedded within something that you hope they confiscate and listen to them as they take it back. You could do a lot of things to entrap them.

• 119 Carlos Miller // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:26 AM

  Jon Brooks,

  Now that you mention it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the police bugged his house during the raid to find out who he is talking to and what he is talking about when he thinks he is alone.

• 120 wolfboi // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:28 AM

  JON HAS A GOOD POINT

  VIDEO DOESNT LIE, NAIL THOSE BASTARDS IN BLUE, LOVE TO SEE A COP IN JAIL

• 121 Adam // Apr 4, 2009 at 2:03 AM

  Kiegel comparing a civil servant intended to catch criminals (someone who damages property, endangers anothers life, or steals from them) to a educator of children is ridiculous. you want to compare occupations cops in my area brag about how dangerous their job is that it requires them to carry a gun no cop has been in a gunfight in my are nor died from anything other than poor driving skills i’m an electrician apprentice 30 of us die a year my job is more dangerous so then by that same logic should i be allowed to carry a gun.

  also warrants are only supposed to be issued under REASONABLE ARTICULABLE SUSPICION (same as required for a cop to go beyond a terry frisk of your car) now what this means is there must be a decent enough amount of evidence to warrant a warrant. (hence the meaning of the word) the man was in court and surfacing information to the public that was potentially damaging to the whole legal system.

  also your token crime statement falls under the guidlines of wrongful search and siezure. they can only go in/on the private propert and conduct a search limited by the warrant. so if the warrant is for the arrest of person A and person B is rolling joints they have to leave them be. many cases have been dismissed because of this. so i’m sorry your wrong. https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/led/ledpage.html this website will teach you a lot about what i mean. it is designed for law inforcement so they can read what other cops have done and how it was viewed in court.

  also the sides of the cars at one time said “to serve and protect” how by enforcing a law designed to protect me from myself are they serving me(seatbelt law).

  how by writing me a ticket for going 60 in a 50 on a road (go to your local bureau department for info) designed for 70 are they serving and protecting.

  now in a school zone or in town probably a good idea to go a little slower because it isn’t your driving that is a problem it is everyone else you need to be paying attention to and be prepared to react for. but on a country bumb ass road who gives a shit.

  and how does any of what anyone has said involve cop the job and cop the husband.

  i was in a coffee shop with a cop two days ago and he was bragging about using his taser and how much fun it is.

  bragging about how his goal every night is to get at least two DUI’s.

  His goals should be to hope he never has to use his taser. Hopefully he won’t find anyone driving drunk. This would mean that what he is doing is working.

  cops are a necessity but they have become something other than intended. as for a “blogger” using opinion to make a point. morals are formed from the majority of a populaces opinion laws are based on morals case file is based on laws. so what is you point??

  also wolfboi I understand your anymosity and heartily agree with it. but just because someone is a cop doesn’t mean they need to be in jail.

  oh and as for my point about habeas corpus i was incorrect to use that once again sorry not a lawyer stupid construction worker detaining the girl who had no apparent involvement was unnecessary and a violation of her civil liberties. she had done nothing wrong and they had no authority to detian/restrain her.

  for the most part i don’t believe the cops are bad i believe they are dumb. they are to brainwashed and to weak minded to be able to look around and question what they are doing. it use to be a position of respect. people use to ask cops for advice. people who didn’t even know them. you know of anyone who does that now??

• 122 bush_is_a_moonie // Apr 4, 2009 at 2:48 AM

  My brother was a Phx police officer for about 8 years. He left because of the corruption. He also said that “excessive use of force” is very common. He is now an Asst. Chief of Police in another town here.

• 123 Greg // Apr 4, 2009 at 2:51 AM

  Wow, some excellent discussion here.

  Despite my own run-ins with the law, I also got feedback from cops who said they appreciated citizens insisting on oversight over public servents. The good cops have a very thin line to walk, they are constantly seeing violations of rights, civil and natural, and they would be imperiled if they “crossed the blue line.”
  That said, if they become informers (think “Serpico” etc) the won’t have a very long career ;7) Still, I think the so-called “good cops” are also cowards, surely if I see police corruption, they must see more!

  I once went to jail for 11 days, for riding a bicycle at night with no headlight. Each day, a sheriff would come to my “pod” and say something to the jailers, after the 5th day they let me meet w/my lawyer, he told me I was on the court calander every day, but the sheriffs wouldn’t walk me over to the court (600 or so feet through a tunnel)! They finally let me out at 2am, with a court date that same day, but one of my shoes was “missing”. No money for a cab or bus, a long walk w/no shoes (what good is 1 shoe?)

  And a cop testified that my picture was “over the copy machine in the break room for 2 years!”

  The judges are in league with the D.A.s and the cops, and the “internal investigators” are crooks too.

  We are coming to a day when they either go full-1984 on us, or we go full 1776 on them!
  peace.

• 124 bush_is_a_moonie // Apr 4, 2009 at 2:57 AM

  Adam,

  Things have changed. The USSC is now supporting KGB like actions.

  also your token crime statement falls under the guidlines of wrongful search and siezure. they can only go in/on the private propert and conduct a search limited by the warrant.

  USA Today

  A divided Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that drug evidence found during an unlawful arrest arising from a computer error about a warrant could be used at trial against the defendant.

  When police mistakes that lead to an unlawful search arise from “negligence … rather than systematic error or reckless disregard of constitutional requirements,” evidence need not be kept from trial, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the 5-4 majority in the case from Alabama.

  He was joined by the four other conservative justices: Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.

  http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-14-court_N.htm

• 125 Greg // Apr 4, 2009 at 3:05 AM

  And when I got out, the school I worked at (I was a High School Teacher) was not too happy, wondering for a week what happened to me. I had previously given the principal a tape of me on the news – giving interviews on the courthouse steps – and told her my “civil rights” work would not interfere with my teaching and would (for the most part) take place on weekends and summer – she finally realized that I was in jail incommunicado, about the time My lawyer got through to me, the principal had figured it out anyway.

  The best news for those in Santa Clara County now, is that the current DA (Delores Carr) didn’t file her Oath of Office when she was a judge, I found out about it by accident, and have a certified copy, and carry a copy of that whenever I visit that god-forsaken place. A get-out-of-jail card! But leading up to the election, did any news outlet care that 1 candidate didn’t file her Oath? Not even the so-called “political bloggers.” So I don’t have faith in either, they’re no better than the cops! Imagine that the local newspapers, police agencies, bloggers, nobody care(s) that the DA committed a felony when she was a judge! Somehow, judges are not “required” to “know the law” when it comes to them.

  …. until we go full-1776 on them ….

• 126 Autarch // Apr 4, 2009 at 4:25 AM

  Andrew DeFilippis tells us TrueCrypt critics have “genuine questions” about whether the program is safe to use. He adds: “Some people believe the program…may actually contain code that has a backdoor.”

  TrueCrypt is open source. Thousands of programmers have examined the code. Perhaps “some people” could explain why none of those programmers ever found a backdoor.

  Mark Read Pickens

• 127 William // Apr 4, 2009 at 9:52 AM

  Samantha is right! Real Journalists are people like Bill Oreilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter! Oh wait… I just threw up a little. As a Technology Journalist myself, you don’t need a degree. All you need is to be informed, to know what you’re talking about, and to have an audience willing to hear you.

  If you’re missing the information, you’re an entertainer. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, you’re a politician. If you have no audience… you’re an asshole.

• 128 Jeff // Apr 4, 2009 at 10:57 AM

  Thanks for all the positive comments and thanks for the great story Carlos.

  Our latest Blog might explain things better

  http://badphoenixcops.blogspot.com/2009/04/racism-in-phoenix-pd-and-more-civil.html

  as we know what this is really about and the Mark Goudeau/Baseline murder trial is pivotal.

  To quickly answer some of the questions here:

  -We have had police “friends” sweep our house looking for bugs, videos, etc.
  -We have had our police friends check our cars to look for “pigtails” (GPS devices)
  -We are aware of our cell phone being tapped. We speak in code and meet in places with wide vistas in the open desert -one advantage to this shithole called Arizona.
  -The police did not consult city attorneys. Right now there is chaos inside the PPD for what they did. The city is “up-in-arms” with the PPD especially now realizing their is pending litigation.
  -We posted an internal email to the Blog that was top secret and sent from the City Attorney. It only shows we can get just about anything we want and only added more fuel on the fire. Source tell us another inside witch hunt is being conducted to find that leak.
  -The affidavit was not attached to the search warrant and has been sealed.
  -When the home was raided by SID (Special Investigation Div) they sent away the beat cops out of 900 precinct? Why? Because most of the cops support us and they couldn’t be trusted by SID.
  -Locally, there is really not much on the computers. Everything was/is hosted somewhere else. The point in taking laptops, modems and routers was to stop us from blogging. One thing we forgot to mention was that they took all of Jeff’s bills too – water bill, legal bill, cable bill, electric bill, etc. – all to harass.
  -Someone mentioned how the site is cyberstalking. We never once took a photo of homes, published addresses or anything of the like. That is against the law. We won’t ever mention family (kids in rahab, etc) – unless they are cops too. We got access to a Facebook page and posted personal photos of Tracy Montgomery, one asst chief. Everyone knows, if you don’t want it public, don’t put it on the web. They are all public servants and fair game.
  -Following on all the Nazi comments here – the PPD has blocked the website from City computers and blocked all pod cast, recordings from all the media sites that picked this up like JD Hayworth and CBS. It wouldn’t surprise us if Carlos’ site is blocked too. All we need next is the Kristallnacht, a book burning and JUDA written on our homes and it is 1938 Berlin.

  Many of you have sent emails asking how to help. We tell everyone to send the story to 20 people and tell them to send it to 20 more. Blog about it.

  You may also send emails to anyone in the city of Phoenix as the emails are first.last@phoenix.gov

  The mayor is Phil Gordon. City manager is Frank Fairbanks. Asst. City manager is Alton Washington. Chief of Police is Jack Harris.
  Thelda Williams is an outspoken critic of the PPD and a councilwoman.

  Here is a link to find more
  http://phoenix.gov/citymanager/executiveteam/index.html

• 129 Adam // Apr 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM

  bush is a moonie

  i didn’t mean to portray the idea that they always follow the law or that judges will never circumvent the law. i’ve been witness to that very thing during a court case where the judge tried to force my friends dad to sign away a car that his ex wife had sold after the judge instructed them not to sell anything and my friends dad had proven in court that her dyke girlfriend had forged his signature. so yes much to much is left up to the descretion of the courts and yes one courts decision is often hard to over rule all i am after is the constitutional basis. if you go to the website i gave you i read the other day a piece of case law where the cops had obtained a search warrant for arrest of an individual. the cops confiscated some methemphetamine and tools to make it and some people that were at the house that weren’t subject to the arrest per the warrant. the judge whose signature was on the warrant let them all go because the cops had gone beyond the scope of the warrant.

  remember the supreme court ruled that if you do not beligerently demand respect for your rights you have none.

  in the case of the man hosting this site. they didn’t even have reasonable enough evidence to issue a warrant. i hope he fries them all.

  actually kind of interesting part of the divorce case i mentioned early here gregg. the lady my friends dad was getting divorce from was also a 911 dispatcher. after several years of all of us getting harassed and arrested because we helped him hide his money and the judges saw our names on stuff but could never link anyone to anything as having enough control to be able to give up money or property we found out that in our county not one DA Judge or Magistrate had their bounds or ouths of office. We took it to the FBI and they said they didn’t even want to deal with it. We tried to turn it in and the court just waited until the statute of limitations ran out to respond to us they all went and got their bonds and ouths.

  here is another fun one from my county. local city cops were called to a scene where they were told a man had a some kind of gun. the man was a retarded man who wondered the streets of the town many people knew him and interacted with him regularly. we live in a pretty small rural area so not a lot of hobos. it was night in a very well lit parking lot and in no place in this parking lot could a person be more than 50 feet from another person. the man had a paint ball gun. the official report said both officers emptied their clips the man was struck three times. they murdered a retard one of the officers is now a sherriff anfter the incident and the other is a state patrol desk jockey.

  if you gotta murder a retard to get promoted whats it take to get elected here??

• 130 Josh // Apr 4, 2009 at 12:18 PM

  Arizona sounds like a great place to live, whats up with this state? it seems like this is the test zone for violating peoples rights.

  Another great website about Arizona

  http://www.checkpointusa.org

• 131 xxGriff // Apr 4, 2009 at 1:50 PM

  Ziggy,

  an indictment is not a conviction, and the case was dismissed due to lack of evidence.

  and as most people know a Grand Jury will indict a ham sandwich.

  no, “we” did not see the evidence, and that will come to light eventually. evidence submitted for a search warrant is curiously lacking. handcuffing a woman in her home for 3 hours under a search warrant that lists “petty theft” as probable cause is in itself petty.

  also, including some allusion to “child porn” is disingenuous at best. be afraid…they are coming to get your children, those unpatriotic people in this country who question authorities and demand answers.

• 132 Ziggy // Apr 4, 2009 at 2:15 PM

  “fuck those cops, i hope they fkn die”

  “You Fuckin Pigs….. Your time is coming, always.”

  “Why not put microphones in thoes pricks badges?”

  “you are a rat b@st@rd no good fvcking cvnt! Pi$$ off! Fascist wanker!”

  “The police are the thugs of the gov’t”

  “The police are nothing more then a mere gang”

  “There is no difference between cops and gangsters.”

  “stupid, stupid, stupid cops”

  With vitriolic remarks like this, it’s no wonder that police officers have no real interest in participating in this website.

  If people here are serious about police reform and engaging in discussions like responsible adults, here are four websites you should visit where you can interact directly with hundreds of police officers on a daily basis:

  http://forums.officer.com/forums/

  http://community.policeone.com/forum/

  http://www.policelink.com/discussions

  http://policebackground.net/Forum/index.php

  You must register for each forum in order to post. The debate is civil but lively.

  In closing, I read the first comment quoted above just after reading a news report about three Pittsburgh police officers shot in cold blood this morning. I guess the deaths of these fine, brave, honorable men who died protecting you, the public, is something you find admirable. I pity you for having so little regard for human life.

• 133 Michael Edwards // Apr 4, 2009 at 4:41 PM

  Another satisfied customer.

• 134 CHUCK // Apr 4, 2009 at 5:05 PM

  Bears Repeating..

  Mr. Pataky, get a very expensive lawyer. In fact, get the most expensive one in town. Don’t worry about the fee; if you’re not guilty (of…what?) then you’re going to be receiving a lot of money from the Phoenix police department. These fascist cops just decided to underwrite all new computers and equipment for you. Accept their gift gladly, and then tell us all about it!

• 135 Voice of Reason // Apr 4, 2009 at 5:14 PM

  Ziggy, a LEO or conservative, said, “I pity you for having so little regard for human life”. He was referring to the fact that three police officers were shot and killed in Pittsburgh today. He could also have mentioned the four officers killed in Oakland recently.

  Ziggy’s point is valid, but he overlooks two crucial issues. Number one, the number of innocent men, women, and children shot and killed, or tasered and killed, by the police in a typical year is many times greater than the number of police killed by citizens. The police shoot and kill at random. They’ll shoot anybody at any time. Anthony Dwain Lee, who you may have seen in the movie “Liar Liar”, was in costume at a Halloween party, having a good time. Then he was dead. A police officer looked through a window, saw that Lee was holding a toy gun, part of the costume, and shot him dead. Just like that. You’re at a party, then you’re dead.

  The police shoot so many people that it isn’t seen as unusual. Think about it. There’s something that should be obvious. When police get shot, it’s big news, because it happens very rarely. You’ll see funerals on the news, speeches, that kind of thing. The victims of police shootings don’t get speeches or somber eulogies. There’s too many of them. If there’s video, as with Oscar Grant, an exception may be made. However, without video, nobody is interested in killings by police. The victims don’t matter. They’re just blacks, or poor people. If they’re not black or poor, the department will “dirty them up”.

  Little-known fact: It’s far more dangerous to be a dentist than a police officer. The last time that I checked this, if you were a police officer, your odds of dying over the next year were very low compared to the chances that your dentist would die. The key issue was stress. It’s much more stressful to be a dentist, and the odds of getting shot are roughly the same.

  Number two, the police lie. This isn’t a stereotype, like the myths about universal steroid use or joining the force because you like to dominate people. It’s a simple fact. The police lie, and they always lie. It’s easy to care about individuals, police officers or citizens, who are victims of random and unjustified violence. However, it’s extremely difficult to care about an entire class of people who lie specifically to facilitate murder, torture, and “attitude adjustments”. Does anybody remember the case of Abner Louima? Police officers sodomized him with a plunger and lied about it. They said that it hadn’t happened, that he’d injured himself during gay sex. The important part, the part that matters, is that their fellow LEOs supported the officers involved. They didn’t care about the lies.

  To Ziggy, or to any LEO who might be reading this, I have considerable sympathy for the families and colleagues of anybody who gets shot, whether they’re a dentist or a police officer. Additionally, I don’t want to see innocent and well-intentioned LEOs harmed. However, due to the blue “code”, the people who describe police as “thugs” are technically correct. Until you do away with the “code”, until you make it not only illegal but unacceptable to lie, some of the citizens who support you publicly out of fear or political expediency will secretly be quite pleased to read that somebody has struck back.

  On a related note, to address Ziggy’s remark about “regard for human life” from a different angle, does anybody remember the case where police shot a young black girl who was asleep in her car? I’ve searched for her name just now, but couldn’t find it. When her relatives showed up, they were crying. The police thought it was funny to see a group of black people crying about the dead girl. One of them radioed to his friends. He said, “it’s like Gorillas in the Mist”. Ziggy, if you’re reading this, or if any LEO is reading this, tell me again about how ordinary citizens don’t have any “regard for human life”.

• 136 Voice of Reason // Apr 4, 2009 at 5:31 PM

  Ziggy has suggested that people who are “serious about police reform and engaging in discussions like responsible adults” should go to web sites that require visitors to “register”. There’s an obvious problem with this suggestion. Actually, it’s amusing that Ziggy posted the suggestion on the Jeff Pataky thread. Pataky criticized the police online, so they went to his home and trashed the place. The same thing could happen to anybody who registers with a police-run web site. Why in the world would anybody take the chance? I don’t recommend it. If you criticize the police, and they know who you are, they’re likely to harm you. That’s the moral of the Pataky story.

• 137 jones // Apr 4, 2009 at 5:52 PM

  Voice – Anthony Dwain Lee pointed a realistic looking fake gun at a cop and the cop shot him. Obviously Anthony didn’t know the cop was real and the cop didn’t know the gun was fake.

  Police shoot and kill at random? Your an idiot, at least Duane and Carlos and the other cop bashers make somewhat intelligent arguments, your just a clown.

• 138 DRM // Apr 4, 2009 at 6:33 PM

  Is there a high-quality camera that can upload pictures to the internet (via email, FTP, etc) via wireless or via a built-in cell modem as they are taken – so that if cops confiscate the camera then the pictures are still safe?

• 139 Voice of Reason // Apr 4, 2009 at 6:41 PM

  “jones” said that I’m a “cop basher” and a “clown”. Apparently, he doesn’t agree with Ziggy about the merits of “engaging in discussions like responsible adults”. Ziggy’s tone was a bit heated, but he came across as a more or less rational adult. I respect people of that type. I don’t respect people like “jones”, but trolls are one of the prices that you pay if you have an open forum. And, yes, you’re going to have trolls on both sides of any discussion. Sometimes you can identify them by their lack of spelling skills. For example, “jones” meant to say “you’re”, not “your”. However, ad hominem attacks are the primary sign. By ad hominem attacks, I don’t mean insults. I mean random insults (such as “clown”) that can’t be debated or backed up.

  Obviously, there’d be no point in asking a troll such as “jones” exactly what it is that makes me a “cop basher” or a “clown”. However, I should address two important omissions in his posting. First, it isn’t clear that Anthony Dwain Lee “pointed” anything at anybody. One account stated that Mr. Lee simply turned towards a window. Remember, the officer involved wasn’t even inside the building. Second, Mr. Lee was shot in the back. As I understand it, he was shot three times in the back of the torso and once in the back of the head. The shot to the back of the head is what killed him.

  Police are likely to say that somebody “pointed” a weapon at them, whether or not it actually happened. In fact, they still use “throwdowns”, or weapons that they plant at the site of a killing. For example, the officer who shot Fong Lee (no relation to Anthony Dwain Lee) planted a “throwdown”, and this came to light just the other day.

  However, it’s difficult to say that things like getting shot in the back didn’t happen. Things like that are inconvenient facts.

  If pointing out actual facts makes me a “clown”, so be it.

• 140 ladybugsare // Apr 4, 2009 at 7:19 PM

  Joe Arpaio, anyone? So happy I live in the Southeast
  /scratches Arizona off “places to revisit” list

• 141 PW // Apr 4, 2009 at 7:26 PM

  Andrew DeFilippis says “We are coming ever so closer to a police state. With the Obamanation in effect, the government is gaining control OVER the citizens. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.”

  You’ve got to be kidding.

  All the enhanced security/police powers, DHS, the entire lot of it was ushered in by Bush. The rest of us have been living with that for eight years, friend. Where have YOU been?

• 142 Voice of Reason // Apr 4, 2009 at 7:54 PM

  “jones” quite justifiably objected to my statement that the police shoot people “at random”. That was hyperbole, and I apologize. I should have said that the police shoot people so frequently, so quickly, and for so little reason, that it seems to be random.

  A young mother is cutting vegetables to make dinner. Her kids are there. The police enter her kitchen, and ten seconds later, she’s dead because she was holding a knife. I assume that most of the people reading this had mothers who used knives to make dinner. How would you have felt if they’d shot your mother under similar circumstances? Because she was making you dinner? The officer who shot the mother in this case simply said “Hey, hey, hey” and shot her. No warning.

  A black teenager parks an expensive vehicle in his driveway. That looks like probable cause to the police. After all, the boy is black. So a police officer orders the teenager to lie down on the ground. The boy does so. The boy’s mother complains about this, so the officer starts beating the mother. I believe that he slammed her against the garage door. The kid says, “What are you doing to my Mom?”, so the officer shoots him. No warning.

  A man opens the door to a rooftop and surprises a police officer, so the officer shoots him. No warning.

  The police visit the home of a blogger who’s written about drugs. They figure, if he’s written about drugs, he must have some. So they pound on his door. He opens the door. They shine a flashlight in his eyes. He puts up an arm, because he’s blinded. So they shoot him. No warning.

  I regret the tone of the remark that the other poster objected to. However, if the police are free to shoot people in cases of this type, it feels very much as though they could shoot me or somebody that I care about totally at random. I don’t appreciate the fact that I need to feel this way.

• 143 please // Apr 4, 2009 at 8:12 PM

  could you please post the document in a open format like pdf instead of the DRM flash format of scribd. scribd is impossible to use and it makes what would be the simple act of downloading and viewing a pdf a painful process.

• 144 Carlos Miller // Apr 4, 2009 at 8:20 PM

  Please,

  You should be able to download it as a PDF. Just click on the link above the document, then click on “download” at the top of the document, then click on PDF.

• 145 Andrew DeFilippis // Apr 4, 2009 at 10:41 PM

  ————————————————————
  Autarch // Apr 4, 2009 at 4:25 AM

  Andrew DeFilippis tells us TrueCrypt critics have “genuine questions” about whether the program is safe to use. He adds: “Some people believe the program…may actually contain code that has a backdoor.”

  TrueCrypt is open source. Thousands of programmers have examined the code. Perhaps “some people” could explain why none of those programmers ever found a backdoor.

  Mark Read Pickens
  ————————————————————
  ^^^ TrueCryptCritic said this, I DID NOT. I know it is open source, TrueCryptCritic must be a little too paranoid and doesn’t know…

  Post #67 TrueCryptCritic // Apr 3, 2009 at 9:54 AM

  .
  .
  .
  .

  ————————————————————
  PW // Apr 4, 2009 at 7:26 PM

  Andrew DeFilippis says “We are coming ever so closer to a police state. With the Obamanation in effect, the government is gaining control OVER the citizens. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.”

  You’ve got to be kidding.

  All the enhanced security/police powers, DHS, the entire lot of it was ushered in by Bush. The rest of us have been living with that for eight years, friend. Where have YOU been?
  ————————————————————
  We have not become a total police state YET. There are a lot of places in this country that are perfectly normal and still play by the rules (laws). The cities and small towns that have bigger issues like gangs running the police are currently/will soon be a police state.

  People need to stand up for their rights. When you invoke your 5th Amendment right to NOT self incriminate, you are taking a HUGE stand for your rights. More law abiding citizens should obtain their concealed carry permit so the government understands that guns are here to stay and that the citizens still have and know their 2nd Amendment right. Taking pictures out in public and bringing a video camera along for when you are stopped so you can expose the corruption, allows us to protect our 1st Amendment right!

  If we allow the government to take control, it will.

• 146 jones // Apr 5, 2009 at 12:12 AM

  Voice – If your going to post examples of police “shooting people at random” at least use some names or post links.

  Photographer uses gun disguised as camera to shoot and kill 30 people at sporting event.

  See police are not the only ones who “shoot people at random”.

• 147 jones // Apr 5, 2009 at 12:21 AM

  Voice – I guess our definitions of “random shootings” are different.

  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/13/national/main2466711.shtml

  http://texasfred.net/tags/nursing-home-shooting

  http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/topstories/41084367.html

  Seems police also stop “random shootings”

• 148 Msuthon // Apr 5, 2009 at 1:11 AM

  samantha bothered me!!

  Yes, most journalists are degree educated individuals but to say that blogging is not a form of journalism is in itself a dumb argument.

  I would like to know one journalist that you can honestly name that is not influenced to write articles in biased formed by either education, parenting, life experience, predjudice or persuasion?!? You can’t! If all journalist wrote facts then articles wouldn’t contain more than 1 paragrah. If only facts were reported, why would we need multiple press companies? If only facts, why would people choose news stations like they choose churches? Exactly.. Because people choose journalists that best report “facts” in their viewpoints.

  Point being, regardless journalism didn’t require a degree when the constitution was written And it’s not required now. Most papers in the 18th and 19th century were pure speculation, opinions or a blog by the press owner, if you will. Only in the 20th century has the press been more formalized and unioniZed! Either way… He has the right to blog, report and post about possible police corruption as a right under freedom of speech and freedom of press(another right that didn’t require a degree, just money, when the const. was written). If he was discussing closed cases that judges were censuring then he can be arrested but then again, that would have been the charge, not petty theft or harassment!

• 149 Duane Kerzic // Apr 5, 2009 at 1:19 AM

  i was looking for the article about the gun that looked like a camera.

  If more people carried guns around there would be less shootings like this.

• 150 Hello // Apr 5, 2009 at 3:22 AM

  I like turtles!!!

• 151 Carlos Miller // Apr 5, 2009 at 4:19 AM

  They are all public servants and fair game.
  -Following on all the Nazi comments here – the PPD has blocked the website from City computers and blocked all pod cast, recordings from all the media sites that picked this up like JD Hayworth and CBS. It wouldn’t surprise us if Carlos’ site is blocked too.

  A reader once told me that my site was blocked in China.

  So the Phoenix Police Department will be in good company if they block my site.

• 152 Gisela Larsen // Apr 5, 2009 at 7:21 AM

  I have to say this in swedish bacause this made me really angry!!!!!!
  Det är helt sjukt att man kan bli anklagad & dömd för att ta ett photo. Läser man lagen som gäller

  Journalister arbetar på historiens frontlinje genom att bringa ordning i komplicerade händelser, att formulera dem och berätta det för oss. Deras redskap är ord och bilder, deras credo är uttrycksfrihet och deras arbete angår oss alla, både individer och samhällen.

  Ändå förföljs, attackeras, fängslas och mördas många journalister för det viktiga arbete som de utför. Därför hedrar vi nu på internationella dagen för pressfrihet de journalister som har fallit offer för faror i sitt yrke. Vi hyllar journalisters mod och engagemang för att utöva rätten att söka och berätta sanningen, trots faror och ren brutalitet.

  Och vi påminner särskilt regeringar om att rätten att ”söka, få och vidarebefordra information och idéer genom media” finns inskriven i artikel 19 i den Allmänna förklaringen om de mänskliga rättigheterna. Censur, hemlighållande av information, hot och ingripanden är att förneka demokrati, det är ett hinder för utveckling och ett hot mot vår säkerhet.

  Källa: http://www.fn.se/press/nyheter-fran-fn-forbundet/2008/internationella-dagen-for-pressfrihet-/

• 153 JanColdwater // Apr 5, 2009 at 7:52 AM

  WOW, the corruption is just too much! I hope the people of ARIZONA give them HELL! PICKET! PROTEST! Outside the police department and outside the Judges Chambers and DEMAND ALL THOSE INVOLVED WHO BROKE THE LAW IN ORDER TO DO THIS, BE FIRED! Just because the Judge used his authority to do this, doesn’t make it right.

  Have we as human beings gone completely mad? The amount of people working against FREEDOM and FOR CORRUPTION is maddening? Don’t these people have ANY allegiance to what is right and sacred about life itself? It is FREEDOM! Even Jesus showed us what it was like to fight against man’s governments!

  People, PLEASE TURN from CORRUPTION and fight TYRANNY or YOU TOO will be a SLAVE along with your children and theirs! The money isn’t WORTH IT! I am talking to YOU POLICE and JUDGES, MILITARY and LAWYERS, EVERY DAY PEOPLE IN THE TRENCHES… TURN BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

  Just remember, there is more of us than there is of them! Where will history place your memory? On the side of right or on the side of DEAD WRONG??

• 154 Voice of Reason // Apr 5, 2009 at 8:11 AM

  This posting addresses some valid points and questions raised by “jones”.

  1. Regarding “random” shootings by police: I’ve already retracted that wording and I’ve apologized for it. As I’ve indicated elsewhere, police shoot people frequently, without warning, and for little or no reason. Therefore, it feels as though they might shoot me or somebody that I care about at random. That’s a better way to put it.

  2. Request for names or links. I’ll use names. I’ve already mentioned Abner Louima, Anthony Dwain Lee, Fong Lee, Oscar Grant, and Patrick Dorismond by name. As requested, here’s some of the names that I didn’t mention:

  The young mother was Cau Thi Tran (San Jose, 2003). That case caused some friction between the community and the department in question. The police came to the mother’s house because she had allowed one of her children to play outside unattended. He was back inside before the police arrived. An officer shot the mother in front of her children without warning. They eventually blamed the shooting on the fact that the woman didn’t speak English and didn’t understand the officer’s warnings. However, he didn’t actually give her any warnings. He just said “Hey, hey, hey” and shot her dead. Adult witnesses both inside and outside the house confirmed the “Hey, hey, hey” wording, though one witness thought it was just two “heys”. Regardless of the number of “heys”, the mother was dead within three or four seconds after the officer entered her house. The official report stated that it was seven or eight seconds. However, adult witnesses both inside and outside the house contradicted this. The report also stated that the victim had pointed her knife at the officer involved and ignored reasonable warnings to drop the knife. As with most cases of this type, none of that actually happened. The report was fiction. The adult witness inside the house stated that it wasn’t true, but we don’t even need his testimony with regard to the exact sequence of events. Since the incident took no more than three or four seconds, there was no time for events to have occurred as described in the report. That’s why they changed the time from three or four seconds to seven or eight seconds. It’s the “code” of lies. I can understand an accidental shooting, even the shooting of a young mother, but I believe that the officers who falsified the report in this case should have been prosecuted and imprisoned specifically for that crime.

  The young black man who was shot in his driveway was Robbie Tolan (Houston, New Year’s Eve 2008). He was 23, not a teenager (my mistake), but the rest of the story appears to be as I stated it. Incidentally, Robbie Tolan is the son of baseball player Bobby Tolan, so this case received some news coverage. You’ll find CNN pages about it. He survived the shooting, but he has a bullet lodged in his liver.

  The young black man shot on a rooftop was Timothy Stansbury, age 19 (Brooklyn, 2004). There wasn’t any good way to spin this incident or to “dirty up” Mr. Stansbury, so the city was forced to pay his mother two million dollars. She’d rather have her son.

  The blogger flashlight shooting happened just a few weeks ago. The victim’s name was Derek Copp (Michigan, 2009). The incident appears to have happened exactly as I described it. The victim survived the shooting, but suffered liver and lung damage. I don’t know if he’s out of the hospital yet.

  The only victim whose name I can’t identify was shot and killed in the incident that bothers me the most. Cau Thi Tran’s killing is more horrifying in several respects, but this one is unsettling because of the thing that an officer did subsequently.

  It was quite a while back, so I haven’t been able to find the story online. If I remember correctly, the victim was a young black woman, probably late teens or early twenties. She was sleeping in her car, probably because she was out of gas or due to mechanical problems. The police knocked on her window. She was frightened and half-asleep, and she thought that she was being robbed, so she fumbled for a gun. The police shot her dead without warning.

  As in the majority of cases of this type, the dead girl never knew that she was being killed by the police. That part troubles me. One moment, you’re alive. The next moment, you’re dead, and you don’t even know why. It’s not like TV shows. On TV shows, the police go out of their way to warn people. I’m always amused when I see that. In real life, the police kill people, even innocent people, without any warning at all. Naturally, the reports always state that plenty of warnings were given, even if there’s video which disproves it. As indicated by other posts on this site, the police are apparently developing strategies to deal with video.

  The “girl in the car” case bothers me a great deal because the police joked about the dead girl’s family. The family was black, so one of the officers radioed his friends and described the black people as “gorillas in the mist”.

  I’m not a “cop basher” who hates all police officers. In fact, I’ve had both pleasant and unpleasant interactions with the police. I’m white and old, so if I’m quite careful, officers treat me respectfully. However, sometimes I think about the officer who laughed as a family wept over their dead daughter, who described the family as “gorillas in the mist” because they were black. If I were to read that this particular officer had died unpleasantly, I’d be pleased. When his death does come, I hope that it’s slow and difficult, and that he’s aware it’s happening. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. If you believe in human decency, there’s a good chance you’ll agree that the officer in this case has forfeited the right to be considered human.

  At the very least, if I was on the jury deciding the fate of somebody accused of killing an officer of this type, the accused would go free. In cases like that, you’ve got to think about justice and what’s right. Incidentally, I might have the opportunity to weigh this decision someday, because I look exactly like the kind of juror that the police would want. I don’t fit the counterculture or “cop basher” stereotypes at all.

  3. Police are not the only ones who “shoot people at random”: Of course they’re not. And, yes, the police do stop crimes. In fact, they’re a critical part of society’s infrastructure. Society couldn’t function without them.

  I believe that there’s a fundamental misunderstanding here. Just because somebody wants capricious killings to be reduced, or officers who lie to be prosecuted and imprisoned, or officers who torture people (for example, sodomize them as in the Louima case) to be executed, it doesn’t mean that they’re a “cop basher”. If that’s the case, there’s a lot of police officers who are “cop bashers”. I have the impression that some of the people who’ve attacked Jeff Pataky in this thread don’t understand that he’s got police officers on his side. Are the officers who are helping Mr. Pataky “cop bashers” ? I don’t think so.

  People who want justice aren’t necessarily blind. They’re aware that a police force of some kind is necessary, and that the police aren’t there solely to kill people for sport. But that doesn’t mean that the current system, and I’m referring specifically to the “code” of lies, is acceptable.

  4. I guess our definitions of “random shootings” are different: Not really. See my preceding postings. I’ve apologized for my original remark. However, I stand by the fact that many police shootings are capricious, unjustified, close to murder, or over the line. Additionally, I stand by the fact that, more importantly, the police plant “throwdowns” (see the Fong Lee case) and they have a “code” that not only permits but encourages lies, in particular lies about how and why innocent people are harmed or even killed.

  The “code” shouldn’t be tolerated. Police officers who support the “code” don’t deserve to be LEOs. In my opinion, they’re not police officers at all. They’re criminals, and they deserve whatever criminals deserve.

  Additionally, taking the fact that we’re expected to believe police reports without question into account, the kind of unambiguous betrayal represented by a “throwdown” (or planted weapon, such as was used in the Fong Lee killing) is intolerable. In my opinion, the use of a “throwdown” should automatically convert any shooting into a first-degree murder case, and the death penalty should be mandatory. It’s hard to believe that any strong law and order proponent would disagree with this position.

• 155 Digital Ryoka // Apr 5, 2009 at 8:13 AM

  people in this country are too ignorant and stupid to realize that we are definitely living in a police state already and it just gets worse. Police raid a bloggers house, LMAO.

  When all of our rights are stripped away and we are implanted with RFID chips, maybe then people will understand what’s really going on.

• 156 Marlow Watly // Apr 5, 2009 at 9:03 AM

  Judges in this country are a joke. They relish thier position of power, and respect nothing but money and power. When faced with the gestapo and a ordinary joe, who do you think they are going to side with. This country is screwed big time. This is just the beginning. Once local cops figure out this bail out thing is going to sop up all the generous funds they used to get from the feds, they are going to be very pissed off, yet still have most of the guns. Guess who they will take it out on.

• 157 Johnny // Apr 5, 2009 at 9:08 AM

  Perhaps we should see the other side of the story before we judge. Maybe the raid had nothing to do with his blogging.

• 158 Voice of Reason // Apr 5, 2009 at 9:13 AM

  Note to Duane Kerzic: You said that you were looking for the article about the gun that looked like a camera. I looked for the same story, and I haven’t been able to find the specific incident that “jones” was referring to.

  I did find a story in the L.A. Times about a camera-shaped gun, but in that case, it was the police who had the weapon. Nine years ago, there was a man who was holding 28 people hostage. They promised him an interview, something that he wanted, and they used the fake camera to shoot him. Shoot as in bullets, as opposed to film.

  I don’t believe that “jones” was thinking of this story. He specifically mentioned a sporting event, and the 2000 incident didn’t involve sports.

  It’s ironic that “jones” mentioned an interesting story without links in the same posting where he complained that I hadn’t provided them. It’s possible that he did provide a link, but that it didn’t translate correctly. Either way, I’d like to read the story. This couldn’t be a recent incident, though, or the story would be easier to find.

  I’ll try to add a link to the L.A. Times story below, but I don’t know if it’ll post correctly:

  http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/02/news/mn-36599

• 159 Voice of Reason // Apr 5, 2009 at 9:48 AM

  Note to Johnny: Regarding the Pataky case, you said “Perhaps we should see the other side of the story before we judge. Maybe the raid had nothing to do with his blogging”.

  If you read the update at the top of the Pataky thread, you’ll see that a “litigation hold” has been placed on Pataky-related documents and that officers have been cautioned not to discuss the case. Therefore, it’s unlikely that you’ll hear the “other side” anytime soon.

  If the raid was, in fact, retaliation for Pataky’s blogging, you won’t hear the “other side” at all. The city will try to make the case go away quietly.

  Look up the case of Father James Manship. There’s a thread about that case elsewhere on this site. I’ll summarize what happened to Manship here, because the Pataky case will probably play out the same way:

  Police officers do something inappropriate. Then they lie about it. The city is embarrassed. The city hires an attorney to back up the officers and spin the situation. That doesn’t work. People try to “dirty up” the victim. That doesn’t work. The charges against the victim are quietly dropped. There’s no admission of wrongdoing. The officers involved aren’t disciplined. The city waits quietly for things to blow over. For a while, you’ll hear “No comment” about the case. Eventually, people will say “That’s ancient history. It’s not relevant”.

  For situations of this type, it’s standard operating procedure.

• 160 Reality // Apr 5, 2009 at 10:34 AM

  There’s no other side here. Cops do what they want, when they want, and as a group are essentially operating outside the law. If they’d wanted to, they could have just shot Pataky dead on the spot. “He had a gun trained on us when we came in the door.” Even if someone questioned them, you’d have several “good men of the law” backing up the story.

  Honestly, I think Mr. Pataky should be happy to still be alive. Police officers don’t have to face justice, ever. Worst thing that might have happened is someone would have gotten “fired”(aka; Transferred to another department).

  Long live justice.

• 161 jones // Apr 5, 2009 at 11:08 AM

  Voice – You sound like you think the cop with the gun disguised as a camera did something wrong. If that is your opinion then there is no sense in debating with you.

  I haven’t had a chance to look into all of those stories you posted but I will when I have time. As far as the one you talked about with the girl sleeping in the car pulling a gun on the police because she thought she was being robbed. Are you saying when somebody pulls a gun on a cop the cop shouldn’t do anything because the person might be mistaken them for robbers? What would you do if you were a cop and you walked up to the car and the person inside pulled a gun?

  But like I said, your post about the cops shooting the hostage taker with a camera gun reads like you think the police did something wrong. Can you let me know if that is how you feel or if I’m misunderstanding your post.

• 162 fjikima // Apr 5, 2009 at 11:11 AM

  I recently experienced bad cops in Tucson. I have since left the state. It’s too hot there and everyones brain has shriveled to a raisin. In any case I’m pretty sure the entire stat is corrupt and useless.

• 163 John // Apr 5, 2009 at 12:51 PM

  I declare the whole mess unreadable goading and sleaze, and endless provocations that usually signal a creep. However, perhaps the police should have ignored him. And indeed, perhaps the police there are corrupt or inept. The internets will not make this clear to anyone but those whose minds come pre-programmed.

  I will contribute that I was on the phone with my friend in Oakland when I heard him shout to the police across the street that “Our tax dollars don’t pay for you to harass that guy,” referring to someone just sitting on the sidewalk. They arrested my friend for his opinion. I listened to it happen. If court just throws it out (and they did), how is it administration of justice and enforcement of the law? It’s harassment, or perhaps counter-harassment. It’s small-minded.

• 164 JP // Apr 5, 2009 at 1:23 PM

  Many of you seem to forget 9/11.

  The police had warning signs that the blogger could be planning terrorists acts against them.

  It’s better to be safe than sorry.

• 165 Scott Chamness // Apr 5, 2009 at 2:16 PM

  JP. What? What are you talking about warning signs the blogger was planning terrorist acts? Don’t you think if that had been the case the place would have been invaded under that context instead of “petty theft”?

• 166 fonzie // Apr 5, 2009 at 4:57 PM

  I suggest we all stop thinking of them as police. Most of what they do is enforce codes and contracts. What they offer for protection is what you just read about in the article. Beat them out of your minds before beating them with your mouths.

  Start the deprogramming by using different terms to describe them such as bureaucratic functionaries or my favorite, government employees with weapons of death and torture.

• 167 Bud Gray // Apr 5, 2009 at 5:41 PM

  FYI

  Malicious police raid on blogger’s home…

  http://freemanexaminer.org/090404fmx2024.shtml

  Best wishes,

  Bud Gray
  editor@freemanexaminer.org
  http://freemanexaminer.org/

• 168 Voice of Reason // Apr 5, 2009 at 5:54 PM

  This posting addresses two valid questions raised by “jones”.

  1. The police used a camera-shaped gun to shoot a hostage taker. “jones” asked me if I thought that the police did something wrong in this case. The answer is no, of course not. You could hardly ask for a better example of appropriate police behavior. The plan was carefully thought out. Nobody shot anybody capriciously, and nobody lied about it.

  Read the story (I posted a link previously). It was a dangerous situation. 25 out of the 28 hostages were children. The hostage taker had poured gasoline everywhere, he apparently had a gun, grenades, and a knife, and he was carrying a child. The whole thing sounds like the kind of movie where things are exaggerated for dramatic effect. “Rambo 12, the Deathinator”. In fact, a local said, “This is the kind of thing you see in TV shows from America; it doesn’t happen in real life”. However, it actually happened. In this case, the police had absolutely no choice.

  From the hostage taker’s point of view, the police weren’t completely fair. After all, he would have settled for an actual interview. However, this situation was so over the top (gasoline, a gun, grenades, a knife, and 25 children), that he really shouldn’t have expected things to work out pleasantly.

  “jones” said, “You sound like you think the cop with the gun disguised as a camera did something wrong”. Nonsense. I’ve read my posting again, and there’s nothing like that in there. He based that opinion solely on the fact that I’m strongly against capricious killings and the “code” of lies. In the camera-gun hostage situation, it wouldn’t have been safe even to use a taser. The police are to be commended for the fact that nobody died in this situation, not even the hostage taker (though he may have died subsequently).

  2. “jones” also asked me, Are you saying when somebody pulls a gun on a cop the cop shouldn’t do anything because the person might be mistaken them for robbers? What would you do if you were a cop and you walked up to the car and the person inside pulled a gun?”

  In the case that he’s referring to, one of the officers involved mocked the dead girl’s family. The family was black, and they cried over the girl’s corpse, so the officer referred to them as “gorillas in the mist”. That’s my primary concern. I’d have no problems with acquitting somebody who killed an officer of this type. It’s my intention to do so, if I’m ever given the opportunity.

  With regard to the specific questions raised, the circumstances will vary from case to case. It’s difficult to debate the specifics of the “girl in the car” case, because it’s the one case where I haven’t been able to verify the facts (since it happened quite a while back). However, my biggest concerns with this type of case (the officer’s “gorilla” remarks aside) are, number one, the police don’t behave the way it’s shown on TV. They shoot without warning, and sometimes without justification. Number two, they falsify reports. It’s not rare or unusual. It doesn’t happen just once in a while. It’s normal and expected. It’s every day, and LEOs who don’t go along with it are ostracized or discharged. Is there a LEO out there who will contradict this simple fact?

  As a general rule, I expect that the police might kill somebody who’s threatening them. However, in some cases, I have serious difficulties accepting the rationales offered for killings, and I will never accept the “code” which says that it’s not only O.K. but required for an officer to lie about things that happened.

• 169 Voice of Reason // Apr 5, 2009 at 6:07 PM

  Note to JP: I’m not certain that I should point this out, because I lectured “jones” about ad hominem attacks and, after all, I’ve chosen the title Voice of Reason. Therefore, I’m obligated to speak as carefully as possible. I know that I haven’t measured up to that, or even come close, but I’m trying to do so. However, with no offense intended, and speaking seriously, if you’re not a troll, you appear to be insane.

  If this observation is inaccurate, I apologize, and I mean that sincerely. However, if we accept “9/11″ as an excuse for any kind of behavior by anybody in authority, it’s all over. Surely you realize that. The part which suggests that you might be insane is that it’s all over for you as well as for everybody else.

• 170 Voice of Reason // Apr 5, 2009 at 6:23 PM

  Note to Reality: Regarding the Pataky raid, you said, “Honestly, I think Mr. Pataky should be happy to still be alive”. You’re both right and wrong. As I understand it, Jeff Pataky wasn’t present during the raid. Yes, if he had been present, there’s a good chance that they would have killed him. However, that’s speculation. The only part that we can state with certainty is that, if they had killed him, the official report would have stated that he had pointed a weapon at the officers involved. It’s quite possible, in this case, that they would have used something referred to as a “throwdown” (or planted weapon). Is there a LEO out there who’s willing to contradict this assessment?

• 171 SteveB // Apr 5, 2009 at 7:25 PM

  I’ve seen a few comments about the legality of the Police actions (even when noted that they are not appropriate). Warrants have Scope.
  Assuming the allegations are true (regarding the raid), it’s unlikely that the scope of a warrant for computer mischief and petty theft allow a the police to confiscate court papers regarding a pending lawsuit against the themselves. It certainly doesn’t give them the right to forcibly detain a guest in handcuffs for 3 hours.

  I would never claim all cops are bad but I’ve seen my share of bad apples. I live in a south Chicago suburb were you can tell the color of a motorist by the number of cops pulling him over. The only time I’ve ever had a car tossed was when getting a ride home from a black friend (someone so straight-arrow he wouldn’t even drive over the speed limit).

  I’ve also got a friend who is a cop. I feel for them in that they deal with the dregs of society day after day with little or no appreciation until someone really needs them. That doesn’t excuse the cops that let that disillusionment turn to corruption. I’ve seen the way cops talk about people when they’re among themselves. It’s not pretty.
  I also see that the power attracts the very people that should never be given a badge.

  Look at the bright side though. I live and work in and around a city were police actually torture people with electrocution and convict scores of innocent people.. then they retire and collect their pension. Feel lucky this site isn’t run out of Chicago.

• 172 Anonymous // Apr 5, 2009 at 8:47 PM

  Thanks for this site, hopefully it shows more and more people that cops need to chill out and focus on more important issues that help the community rather harm it.

• 173 TRO // Apr 5, 2009 at 10:47 PM

  When you’ve gone to school for your bachelor’s in journalism, then I’ll listen to you.

  Bwaaaa, a “bachelor’s in journalism.” That and five bucks will get you a Starbucks coffee.

  Who, what, when, where, and how is all you need to know to be a journalist. That and some basic writing and investigative skills. You think the great journalists of the past got bachelor’s degrees? Hell no, they didn’t. They learned it on the job.

  Good luck selling cell phones what with the newspapers going out of business.

• 174 Duane Kerzic // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:09 AM

  I’ve been wondering where this gun disguised as a camera came from. jones mentioned he had seen one while ago, about how police have to be careful of cameras because you never know when one of these suspected cameras will turn out to actually be a gun. I was wondering where he saw this thing.

  So now we know where he saw it. The police made the gun with the camera. voice of reason thanks for getting to the bottom of this mystry. I thought jones was pulling my leg.

• 175 Adam // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:45 AM

  kinda of interesting it is actually illegal to photograph by any means. . . oh wait wait wait. . . it is against CODE not LAW to photograph without the explicitly approved afor hand permission of an OFFICER of the state of WASHINGTON now thanks to gregoire. i know use to keep a camcorder in the car that i would set on the dash when i was accosted. went to jail last time. explain that way ZIGGY. you fascist badge bunny.

• 176 Coz // Apr 6, 2009 at 2:58 AM

  Continue the great work of exposing the corruption gone wild in Maricopa County by law enforcement.

• 177 Voice of Reason // Apr 6, 2009 at 3:27 AM

  Note to Duane Kerzic: This posting is off topic, but not by much, since part of your site discusses issues similar to those covered by this site. I thought I’d mention that you should fix the gallery link near the bottom of the home page. The http part has a typographical error, so the link is broken. I thought about posting the suggestion on your site, but I didn’t see a forum. Incidentally, I’m sorry about your brother, and I appreciated the AFSP information provided on one of the related pages. I’ve been thinking about contacting an organization of that type.

• 178 L Martin Johnson Pratt // Apr 6, 2009 at 4:00 AM

  I have been tweeting about your story all day long on twitter(dot)com in fact if you go to search(dot)twitter(dot)com and type in #blognotacrime you will see how viral your story from this blog has become. Keep up the fight!

  I would luv to interview you for my TalkRadio Show here in NYC on FM will you email me kulturefirst (at) yahoo (dot) com thanks oh on twitter (dot)com my username is iluvblackwomen i ‘ll see you on twitter? we should be following each other! i guarantee u will see an increase in your audience and followers additionally i would love to have an ongoing update on whatever you are blogging about so i subscribed to the rss via google reader

• 179 Carlos Miller // Apr 6, 2009 at 4:22 AM

  LMJP,

  Just sent you an email and started following you on Twitter.

• 180 Andrew DeFilippis // Apr 6, 2009 at 6:03 AM

  ————————————————————-
  Adam // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:45 AM

  kinda of interesting it is actually illegal to photograph by any means. . . oh wait wait wait. . . it is against CODE not LAW to photograph without the explicitly approved afor hand permission of an OFFICER of the state of WASHINGTON now thanks to gregoire. i know use to keep a camcorder in the car that i would set on the dash when i was accosted. went to jail last time. explain that way ZIGGY. you fascist badge bunny.
  ————————————————————-
  What RCW or WAC did Gregoire implement that prohibits any kind of photography or videography?

  This comment is laced with inebriation…

• 181 Former Californian // Apr 6, 2009 at 6:06 AM

  Just to clarify the mystery of the case mentioned earlier: The case of the black girl who was shot while sleeping in her car happened in Riverside County, California, and her name was Tyisha Shenee Miller.

  http://www.pe.com/reports/2008/tyisha/flash/REPORT%20RE%20TYISHA%20MILLER.pdf.

  It was especially horrible because although YES, she was sleeping in a car with a gun in her lap, everyone could see that if the police felt so “threatened”, all they had to do was BACK OFF! When they tapped on her window, she couldn’t even wake up. How could she have aimed and shot the gun? THEN, they pumped her full of bullets as helplessly lay there asleep and impaired.

  It was enraging, as a parent, to see the unfairness of the situation. #1 There was no “hurry” to disarm her yet they acted as if there were an imminent threat, #2 They chose the most dramatic way to deal with the situation without trying a simple solution first, #3 They executed her in front of her friends and family, #4 Then they mocked her grieving family.

  Horrible case.

• 182 j kline // Apr 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM

  I would strongly suggest that you use encryption software on your new computer. I will also strongly suggest that you use a service like TOR to thwart a tap on your internet traffic along with using a ssl protected proxy server website located outside of the US.

  All of this software is free.

  FYI

• 183 Zee // Apr 6, 2009 at 11:59 AM

  Yeah, and how aggravated and excited would you folks be if the blogger were a conservative writing vitriol against Obama, or illegals, or your local progressive pet.

• 184 Kev // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:07 PM

  The biggest problem is that everyone is uneducated, but don’t hesitate to just complain and bitch and moan. Like the guy who said that fascism and socialism are two different things and don’t bring politics into it. Socialism isn’t politics, it’s economics. Let’s educate ourselves first!

• 185 Carlos Miller // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:08 PM

  Zee,

  The blogger is a republican and almost half my readers are conservative.

  I’m a liberal but I will stand by free speech even if people are writing things I disagree with.

• 186 Zee // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:19 PM

  Well, Carlos, that is refreshing. I apologize for assuming otherwise. Will visit again. Not used to liberals defending free speech for all.

• 187 UK police at work // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:34 PM

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/06/police-surveillance-database-activists-intelligence#

• 188 ExCop // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:41 PM

  Regardless of the validity of their search warrant a department as large as Phoenix should have handled it better. If you’re serving a search warrant on someone who is publicly badmouthing your department you need to make sure when it comes out in the media you don’t end up looking like retaliatory asshats.

• 189 Francine Wilcox // Apr 6, 2009 at 1:35 PM

  Last August when my car broke down, A phoenix policeman let me and my baby son sit in his air conditioned car while he summoned a tow truck . He gave us water and took us to the dealership.
  anyway, They arent all bad.

• 190 ShutterBug // Apr 6, 2009 at 5:19 PM

  I had no idea that the police would confiscate cameras so easily. Thanks for the heads up. I learned about your site from badphoenixcops.com which was on DrudgeReport.com today.

  Where did America go?

• 191 David Jenkins // Apr 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM

  I may live in Illinois, but I’m 100% behind this gentleman. I think it’s great that he took it upon himself to show how poorly the police are doing in Phoenix. Here in Chicago, where I live, the police are about as bad (although I can’t prove it). And kudos to you for fighting back. For those who are interested, here’s my blog:

  http://therearecrooksinillinois.blogspot.com/

  Where I’m trying to fight back against ridiculous taxes in the U.S.’s most corrupt county: Cook County, Illinois.

• 192 AMcA // Apr 6, 2009 at 5:57 PM

  Hate to tell you all, but as a civil rights lawyer my assessment of the case is as follows:

  If the part about the wife having been harrassed pans out, and the computer equipment is somehow reasonably involved, then the warrant’s good.

  And if the warrant’s good, so’s the search and the seizure.

  Under the law, even if the officers’ intent was not squarely focused on the wife’s charges, they still can justify everything that happened there. Quite simply, on Fourth Amendment questions, the law doesn’t look at the sincerity of the officers’ intentions. It looks at whether facts can justify the search, without reference to the subjective intent of the police.

• 193 Leanne Boyd // Apr 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM

  Hi Carlos… I’ve been here in AZ for just over 4 years. I would give anything to be able to leave. It all boils down to having the finances to leave. But there is no work here. I have two upper degrees and so what. I have visions of putting what really matters in the car and just… leaving. It may come down to that. I hate it here.

• 194 Leanne Boyd // Apr 6, 2009 at 9:45 PM

  more… Around here, in Cottonwood, it feels like it is who you are related to, for almost all things. Jobs? Somebody’s sister gets it. Services? If you are not 4th generation, it takes a band of angels to get any help. We have a lot of transplants coming up from Phoenix and the stories are very very sad. I am involved with a local help group for the homeless. I never have seen anything like this. And the stories I hear from some of these people on how they are treated by local law enforcement? All places are not equal. And here is scary.

• 195 Duane Kerzic // Apr 6, 2009 at 10:24 PM

  One thing you should know about stimulus is that there is lots of stimulus money for cops. The democrats want lots of cops. Remember Bill Clinton, “100,000 new cops on the street.” One of the things that Obama ran on was adding those 100,000 back to the ranks after Bush let that funding be reduced to almost nothing. So stand by for more and more control.

• 196 Leanne Boyd // Apr 6, 2009 at 10:30 PM

  This is fine, for more cops. I think there just needs to be some safeguards that will weed out the bad cops. If the cops would just stick to taking out the dangerous element, that is one thing. But AZ is a wonderful example of the police force, at least big parts of it (and sheriff force) being out of control. Otherwise it wouldn’t be up at D.C. being ‘heard.’ I look at this one example here… what a waste of time and money. And is this guy a dangerous criminal? No. But are there dangerous people running free in AZ. ALL OVER THE PLACE.

• 197 Duane Kerzic // Apr 6, 2009 at 11:18 PM

  Samantha,

  In what should send a frightening chill down the spine of every blogger, writer, journalist and First Amendment advocate in the United States, Phoenix police raided the home of a blogger who has been highly critical of the department.

  Yes the first sentence uses the work journalist but it doesn’t refer specifically to only journalists. It also mentions many forms of journalism.

  I belong to a several professional journalism associations yet I have never worked for a journalism company. All of these associations require you to be a professional journalist. My work is done solely for my pleasure and I give myself my own assignments.

  As Carlos will tell you I put keyword meta tags in my work so that it can be found. This has caused some of my work to be found by other forms of media and to be published in them.

  Do I have a journalism degree? No I have an engineering degree. But I can still research, learn and write. If it wasn’t for the web I would no longer be a “journalist” of any kind. When I was in college I did do work for the school newspaper and the yearbook so at that time I was also a journalist.

  It was the consolidation of newspapers and the advent of television that created the formalization of journalism. If you had a big TV station or a big paper you’d look stupid if you got scooped by the small time paper someone ran out of their basement. So they worked to have those people not considered journalist for competitive reasons.

  The Internet has changed that where anyone with a compelling story can attract as much attention as anyone else.

  Times are changing once again. The citizen journalist is making a resurgence. This is a really good thing and hopefully it is not to late. People like Benjamin Franklin weren’t much different from what Carlos is today in their time. They knew how to use the tools of the day to communicate their point of view.

• 198 Anonymous // Apr 7, 2009 at 6:33 AM

  JP, cops should be watched. Constantly. If they want that job, they should have to deal with it.

• 199 TJM // Apr 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM

  To all the corrupt cops out there, remember this, “You have families” Enough said, now sit there and try to figure out what I mean Jerk offs! To the few good cops out there, God Bless You and stand up for truth and justice! peace.

• 200 Voice of Reason // Apr 7, 2009 at 1:05 PM

  Former Californian has located the District Attorney’s report on the “girl in the car” case (i.e., the Tyisha Miller killing). There’s a link in his posting (Thanks, Former Californian.) Additionally, if you search for Tyisha Miller, you’ll find some additional material on the case.

  I suggest that interested readers review non-police documents, such as the pathologist’s findings, in addition to the District Attorney’s report and other police documents. In cases of this type, if you rely heavily on police documents, be warned that you’ll need to wade through a lot of “dirty them up” material and “they were pointing a gun” claims regardless of what actually happened. In this case, there was apparently more “dirty them up” activity than usual. It’s not surprising, given the facts of the case.

  “jones” had requested that I identify the cases that I had mentioned more precisely. This was the only case that I wasn’t able to locate. It turned out to be an important one.

  The basic facts are as I stated them previously. However, there’s some upsetting details that I missed the first time around (10 years ago). People thought that Tyisha Miller was ill. They were concerned about her and phoned for help. They wanted an ambulance. However, they mentioned that Tyisha had a gun, so the police came as well. The police barked orders at a girl who was sleeping or possibly unconscious. When she didn’t respond, they smashed her car windows. Apparently, even though the police had smashed the windows intentionally, the noise involved startled them. They thought that the noise which they themselves had made was gunfire. So they shot the girl instantly, while she was still sleeping. Tyisha may have started to wake up when the glass broke. It appears that she may not have moved at all, possibly because she was unconscious instead of asleep. However, whether or not she woke up, she was dead instants later. If Tyisha did wake up, she didn’t have time to understand what was happening. There was no warning. It appears that she didn’t have time to pick up her gun, let alone point it at anybody. They shot her dead instantly. Twelve shots. Four to the head. They killed a sleeping girl.

  “jones” asked me a question. He said, “What would you do if you were a cop and you walked up to the car and the person inside pulled a gun?” Depending on the circumstances, it’s a fair question.

  However, in this case, it appears that the killing was either manslaughter or murder. The police smashed car windows and shot a sleeping or unconscious girl because of the noise which they themselves had made. It wasn’t first-degree murder. However, it was certainly a crime.

  The officers claimed that Tyisha had shot at them, or that they had believed that she had shot at them, or that she had at least reached for her gun. Anything that might stick. The story appears to have changed quite a bit over time. However, it appears that her only crime was being asleep or unconscious while in possession of a gun. They shot her dead, and she never knew what was happening.

  Tyisha was black. There were claims that she wouldn’t have been killed if she’d been white. That’s quite possible, but it’s speculation. However, it appears that some of the “dirty them up” activity that occurred after the killing did, in fact, focus on the color of her skin. The message conveyed was apparently “she was black, and she had a gun, and we shouldn’t need to say anything else”.

  Some of the locals wanted to kill police in retaliation for the crime. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. It wouldn’t have been appropriate, since they would probably have killed officers who had nothing to do with the situation. However, it’s understandable that people felt this way.

  Five officers were fired after the killing. That’s unusual. However, it appears that some of the officers were given generous settlements (i.e., “medical retirements”) in exchange for going away. In other cases, officers were reinstated with back pay. At least one of the reinstatements was contested. The details are confusing. The only thing that’s clear is that this case has handled badly, both before and after the killing.

• 201 Voice of Reason // Apr 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM

  AMcA said, “as a civil rights lawyer my assessment of the case is as follows: If the part about the wife having been harassed pans out, and the computer equipment is somehow reasonably involved, then the warrant’s good”.

  According to Carlos Miller, the search warrant listed “petty theft” and “computer tampering with the intent to harass” as probable causes.
  There’s apparently no basis at all for the first charge, “petty theft”. For that charge to be valid, even as the basis for a search warrant, don’t you need to be able to demonstrate that a theft of some kind actually took place? As I understand it, if Pataky’s story is true, the police wouldn’t be able to show that anything had even been stolen. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the courts allowed “petty theft” as probable cause when no theft had actually taken place, then the police could say, “we’re looking for some stolen elephants that might be on the property” and search anywhere that they wanted to at any time, even if the elephants in question had never existed. That doesn’t make any sense.

  The second charge refers specifically to “computer tampering with the intent to harass”, not to harassment per se. For this charge to be valid, even as the basis for a search warrant, wouldn’t you need to be able to state which computer had been tampered with? I may have missed something, but this charge doesn’t appear to make any sense in the current case. What computer are they referring to? Pataky’s own computer? That doesn’t sound right. You can charge somebody with harassment, but you can’t charge them specifically with “tampering” with their own computer, with or with the “intent to harass” clarification.

  I don’t believe that it’s enough to say that the “computer equipment is somehow reasonably involved” with the situation in some unspecified way. The search warrant explicitly stated “computer tampering”. If they can’t identify the computer that’s been tampered with, the second charge is also invalid, even as the basis for a search warrant.

  Therefore, it appears that both charges might be invalid, even as the basis for a search warrant. Certainly, I could be mistaken about this. Am I missing something?

• 202 Bonnie Russell // Apr 7, 2009 at 4:16 PM

  I have a special section for bad cops on my divorce related site, http://www.FamilyLawCourts.com

  It’s here:
  http://www.FamilyLawCourts.com/badcop.html

  and in LA,
  http://www.FamilyLawCourts.com/countylosangeles.html

  and of course San Diego, a city very much at peace with its corruption.
  http://www.FamilyLawCourts.com/countysanDiego.html

  By the way, just like PA; when our judges go to hoosegow after their bribery convictions, it’s in p-a-i-r-s.

  Sadly, when they get out they sue for back pension benefits. And they win, too.

  See http://www.SanDiegoJudges.com

  You can’ make this stuff up.

• 203 Archie1954 // Apr 7, 2009 at 4:40 PM

  When the police step out of line there has to be consequences otherwise you do end up with a fascist state. The responsibility for the professionalism of police officers lies with the chief. His job should be on the line evertime one of his force acts up. He is supposed to guarantee the good conduct and training of his officers and if they are not up to par then it is his fault and perhaps a new chief is necessary. Believe me if the chief knew his job was on the line evertime his officers acted egregiously they would be smartened up pretty quickly.

• 204 Rizzin // Apr 7, 2009 at 4:58 PM

  Archie, you’er forgetting how powerful the Police Unions have gotten in being able to get bad cops off charges and back into their jobs. Its not always the CoP’s decision to fire a bad cop or return them to duty anymore.

  The unions have lost their focus which should be to protect the department and city from false allegations and now are protecting the man behind the badge at all costs even when it might be better for everyone for that man to find a different line of work.

  Packratt has done a nice piece on it on his blog (injustice in Seattle listed in Carlos’ Blog roll) about how hard it is to get rid on known bad and dirty cops in Seattle in his March 28th posting.

• 205 Allan Pederson // Apr 7, 2009 at 10:59 PM

  I applaud those of you using your real names!

  I totally despise those of you hiding under false names! You people are cowards! And I don’t believe a word any of you say!

• 206 Archie1954 // Apr 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM

  Wow Allan you are so definite. Are t=you sure you don’t find anything written by a someone using a pseudonom that you believe, even a little bit?

• 207 Allan Pederson // Apr 8, 2009 at 12:02 AM

  I may believe some of what they say, but you’re still a coward!

• 208 Voice of Reason // Apr 8, 2009 at 1:05 AM

  Note to Allan Pederson: I agree that people who use their real names are brave. The rest of it is ironic. Have you looked at the Pataky case; i.e., the case that this thread is actually about? One of the issues raised by the Pataky case is that it might be a bad idea to use real names.

• 209 Jeff Pataky // Apr 8, 2009 at 11:54 AM

  Clarification to Voice of Reason and AMcA

  Thanks again for spreading this story. As the story grows, I see some confusion setting in, so I want to clarify.

  Any Harassment case against my ex-wife is long over. It was not just “thrown out of court” by the judge, it was “dismissed with prejudice” and at my trial it was noted that the police obtained an indictment with absolutely no evidence and we got to trial with not a stick of anything to warrant any domestic violence charge. It was 100% fabricated. This is why the initial lawsuit was filed – malicious prosecution, defamation and a section 1983 claim. The raid and the breach of my 1st amendment and 4th amendment will be added to this lawsuit. If you are resourceful enough, you can find the lawsuit under the caption Jeffrey Pataky v. City of Phoenix, et al CV 09-534-PHX-DKD. it has been assigned to Judge Russel Holland out of Alaska – best known for the Exxon Valdez case.

  This is not Sheriff Joe Arpaio. People are confusing Joe with the Phoenix police. Sheriff Joe is the Sheriff for Maricopa County. The raid and my lawsuit is against the Phoenix Police Department under the direction of Chief of Police Jack “ass” Harris and his thug friends who we Blog about.

  When my home was raided, the affidavit for the search was missing and sealed. It does mention that there are 2 charges they are looking into: Computer Tampering (A.R.S 13-2316.A.5, a class 5 Felony) and Theft- Controls property Knowing it is Stolen (A.R.S. 13-1802 A.5, a misdemeanor). The computer tampering charge is “harassment of an individual or entity” None of these are tied to my ex-wife and are solely tied to the police department. Yes my attorney and I realize how weak their case is and realize the ineptitude. The police did not contact or confer with the City legal department on any of this and the City is very tight lipped about it all. Our sources did send us a top secret email that was sent to all the cops involved in my case that is posted on Carlos’ site

  http://badphoenixcops.blogspot.com/2009/04/internal-memo-we-probably-shouldnt-have.html

  This memo is PATAKY 2. We are trying to get a hold of PATAKY 1 and our sources tell us it was an email sent out to all the Asst. Chief’s in the PPD and was an “oh shit we really fucked up’ memo.

  Our inside Phoenix PD sources tell us that they can keep this “an ongoing investigation” for up to 8 years for the Felony and thus hold onto my equipment for that long. I can assure you, there is nothing on the laptop as everything was hosted – but we are sure they might find kiddy porn, death threat letters to officials, bomb making plans, etc.

  What is on the laptop is 15-20 years of work, personal photos, I tunes and every document I have worked on for my business. They also took all attorney-client emails and all the evidence related to my lawsuit against to PPD. They took all my monthly backups, they took backups of the backups in my fire proof/water proof vault and they took my bills (water, gas, electric) . There is some IT guy going through a very boring hard drive.

  If you really want to help, go to the home page of the Blog. On the right side are all the emails or everyone you may contact.

  If you want to reach us directly send an email to badphoenixcops@gmail.com .

  Thanks again to Carlos and everyone for your support.

• 210 Carlos Miller // Apr 8, 2009 at 12:03 PM

  That would be great if you can get Pataky 1.

• 211 Archie1954 // Apr 8, 2009 at 12:15 PM

  Perhaps it’s time to look into the credentials of the judge that OKed the warrant. Did he know what he was doing? Did he care? Is he in the pocket of the police department? Are the police blackmailing him?(not as far out as you might imagine). What basis, what evidence was used to obtain the warrant? Any? All these questions deserve answers and are important.

• 212 L Martin Johnson Pratt // Apr 8, 2009 at 12:53 PM

  Adrien Eden i beg your pardon i always use my name everywhere i post on the internet. i have never ever used a fake name just google L Martin Johnson Pratt or 1 of my website iluvblackwomen. Moreover you are lumping everyone and making a generalization. I personally have police in my family and i know NOT every cop is bad nor every police department. We as Citizens have the right to discuss, argue, debate and vote.
  Truth is the best and easier policy for me but i am a talk radio host so my life is already open and disclosed

• 213 Voice of Reason // Apr 9, 2009 at 5:17 AM

  Note to Jeff Pataky: Thanks. I still don’t understand which computer was supposedly tampered with, just that the tampering supposedly involved harassment. Blog postings could be treated as harassment, but where’s the tampering? However, that’s due to my ignorance about how this kind of thing works. Obviously, your attorney is on top of things.

• 214 Jeff Pataky // Apr 10, 2009 at 1:20 PM

  Arizona Criminal Law for Computer Tampering

  13-2316. Computer tampering; venue; forfeiture; classification

  A. A person who acts without authority or who exceeds authorization of use commits computer tampering by:

  5. Recklessly using a computer, computer system or network to engage in a scheme or course of conduct that is directed at another person and that seriously alarms, torments, threatens or terrorizes the person. For the purposes of this paragraph, the conduct must both:

  (a) Cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress.

  (b) Serve no legitimate purpose.

  BTW, the Associated Press did a story on this
  http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5il62jYXHUhqE1sg2P9LCaObRrxAAD97FIVDO3

  and we were contacted by the ACLU to help our case.

• 215 Voice of Reason // Apr 10, 2009 at 4:29 PM

  Note to Jeff Pataky: Thanks. There’s still a specific point that doesn’t make any sense. It’s the same point that I asked about previously, but I can state my concern more precisely now, since you were kind enough to post the law.

  If you’re busy, there’s no need for you to respond. Additionally, I’m aware that you’ve got plenty of people involved who know what they’re doing. Questions from the outside won’t necessarily be helpful. However, I haven’t seen anybody, including you, address one specific and interesting point anywhere. I’ll restate my original question based on the text that you provided. If you’re not able to respond, perhaps somebody else will educate me. My concern is described below:

  I’ve read the law (see post 214). It’s not that the case is weak. It might be more significant than that. I’m wondering if people on the other side might have committed a prosecutable offense themselves.

  Obviously, they’re going after Mr. Pataky based on part 5. That’s what people seem to be focusing on. I’m talking about a different issue. Part 5 is apparently a subsection of part A. Not clear, because post 214 appears to be an excerpt. If part 5 is a subsection of part A, part A must apply before somebody can be charged under part 5.

  Part A states explicitly that, to be charged, you must be “A person who acts without authority or who exceeds authorization of use”. The “authority” and “authorization of use” parts apparently refer to hardware, things like the “computer” and “network” mentioned later on in part 5. That’s consistent with the word “tampering”, the word that I asked about in an earlier post.

  Exactly what was the hardware that Mr. Pataky didn’t have “authority” over or that he exceeded “authorization of use” for? That’s the question. No vague gestures or mumbling, please. Exactly what was the hardware?

  It certainly wasn’t Mr. Pataky’s own computer or his local network He’s got “authorization” to use his own computer and local network. So what was it?

  Was the hardware in question the Internet? Did Mr. Pataky exceed “authorization of use” for the Internet? The only “authorization” that seems to be relevant there is the ISP’s TOS. Was there a specific claim that Mr. Pataky had violated the ISP’s TOS, and was the raid based on his alleged violation of the TOS ?

  Was the hardware in question a “computer” or “network” located inside the police department? If so, how do the words “authority” or “authorization of use” apply? Do they apply because people sent E-mail to Mr. Pataky from those computers or because he sent E-mail that was received by them? If that’s the allegation, where is the “authority” or “authorization of use” that applies written down? Is it posted on a web site? URL, please. Is there another law which states it? Section, please. Is it on a 3×5 card that’s taped to the wall at the police station?

  If the hardware that Mr. Pataky didn’t have “authority” to use or that he exceeded “authorization of use” for was a police “computer” or “network”, did he exceed “authorization of use” by having a web site? That can’t be right. Web sites don’t enter local networks the way that E-mail does. Visitors go to web sites. So Mr. Pataky didn’t “use” a police “computer” or “network” simply by having a web site.

  This doesn’t seem to be a minor issue. Obviously, there’s a good chance that I’ve overlooked something. However, if the raid was conducted without a specific, articulable basis for charges under part A, not just part 5, didn’t the people who obtained the search warrant do so under false pretenses?

  I’m talking about the difference between a weak case and actual fraud. If nobody can even state how part A applies, it appears to be fraud.

  I’m aware that somebody might be able to cobble together some sort of answer for this question now, long after the fact. I’ve seen this kind of thing before. However, if the answer didn’t exist at the time that the search warrant was obtained, doesn’t this pose serious problems for the other side? I don’t mean problems for their case. I mean, didn’t they break the law?

• 216 Ziggy // Apr 12, 2009 at 6:53 AM

  “I’m aware that somebody might be able to cobble together some sort of answer for this question now, long after the fact.”

  You seem to be confusing a warrant with an indictment. Additionally, the warrant affidavit is sealed. The ultimate charges against the suspect have yet to be filed or revealed. You might want to hold your questions until that time.

• 217 Voice of Reason // Apr 12, 2009 at 9:54 PM

  Ziggy, I’ve responded to your post 216 on the new thread.

• 218 Marshall // May 5, 2009 at 7:39 PM

  Great work here. I mentioned this post in a blog post I just wrote about the violation of privacy for bloggers: http://www.adventcreative.com/no-such-thing-as-an-anonymous-blogger

• 219 Archie1954 // May 5, 2009 at 9:29 PM

  Once the lawsuit is completed and if the allegations are proven then the police chief must resign. It will then be very obvious that he has lost control of his officers and they are acting as rogue cops. That cannot be allowed. At the same time the judge who OK ed the original warrant had better have a good excuse for doing so. He is the first line of defence for citizens being beset by rogue police and he may have failed miserably here.

• 220 Badgeman // May 12, 2009 at 11:07 PM

  Police are not different from the population they serve. Some are heroic and will sacrifice themselves for the people. Others are simply doing their jobs day by day. And, unfortunately there are some who are on a power trip. Too often, many of them are attracted to SWAT opns and as a result, too often make tragic mistakes. But don’t think they will be much
  better overall than the population from which
  they draw their own members. If you do, you are naive and unrealistic.

• 221 Duane Kerzic // May 12, 2009 at 11:11 PM

  Badgeman,

  Thanks for your thoughtful comment. Enjoy your stay.

• 222 ega // Jun 1, 2009 at 9:32 AM

  i agree …. photography is art…not crime…

• 223 Cruz // Jun 3, 2009 at 7:24 PM

  It’s the same all over the Country, I live in Arlington, Tx and the cops here like to turn teens into Gangaster plant drugs or false charges on them, Grin at them and say “Who they gonna believe you or us, he he” The people need a bill of rights against bad cops, like the right to sue them
  personally so that it wont come out of the tax payers pocket to recover hospital bills, time lost etc. That will separate the good cops from the Bad ones, oh and if there are relatives in the police department you get a double whammy if not more. Enough with bad cops lets get rid of them because psychologically they are dead.

• 224 Cruz // Jun 3, 2009 at 7:36 PM

  Oh I forgot to say I heard they get extra Federal
  funding if they have a Gang problem, just like schools get extra funding for putting students on pharmaceuticals, The more Gangs they create
  the more they collect, guess what they are going to do to minority teenagers ????

• 225 Douglas Dunn // Jun 29, 2009 at 12:16 AM

  Only in Arizona.

  In what other state besides the one the produced John McCain as a Senator could this happen?

  What’s wrong Arizona? Is this the best you can do?

  Don’t you have any educated men in your state? Any men of character?

  A wanna-be playboy president, the “Song Bird,” I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO I’m a WAR HERO John McCain is the best you can do?

  Why I bet you got at least 20,000 African-American men and women in that state with more character in one of their finger nails than John McCain has evidenced his entire life.

• 226 holly // Jul 1, 2009 at 2:02 AM

  Did you ever here that song that goes…I faught the law and the law one..pick and choose your battles!

• 227 Archie1954 // Jul 1, 2009 at 2:15 PM

  If he can prove any of his accusations against the police they will be in big trouble. It’s called misfeasance and should result in dismissal. The judge who approved the raid should also have his credentials investigated. Intimidation whether by a member of the public or by the police is illegal and should be prosecuted.

• 228 holly.... gj // Jul 3, 2009 at 5:09 PM

  I faught the law and the law won…

• 229 BigGingerYeti // Jul 12, 2009 at 8:04 PM

  Keep this work going, it’s so important. The Police want to know everything about us, but the second we want information on them it’s all about privacy and we get arrested. Thanks for posting the info that many cops are helping out with information, there are good cops out there but we just don’t really get to meet them! I hope you win your case.
  Good luck.

• 230 Mark // Jul 24, 2009 at 8:05 AM

  If anyone would like help with making sure this doesn’t happen to them I would be willing to offer a “redundency” as I have a website with a large amount of storage space and some personal servers in my home. I don’t have any run-ins of this kind but seeing this crap makes me sick. Just drop me an email if you’re interested.

• 231 Emily Cragg, B.S., M.A., webmaster // Aug 5, 2009 at 5:14 PM

  Prepare for the worst. Our police departments have been coopted by Globalist THUGISM. If you think this is a new idea, read my site.

• 232 Archie1954 // Aug 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM

  Please never lose sight of the fact that police are licensed to kill. That is why they are subject to a much higher standard of professionalism than ordinary people. You might think that is unfair but the consequences of letting them go rogue are deadly and simply can’t be allowed.

• 233 RINZINGRAND // Aug 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM

  (233) AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL POLICE DEPARTMENTS, ARIZONA POLICE INCLUDED;;INSTEAD OF THIS MACHO “CIRCUS MAXI MUS”, AND LEGAL BLOODLETTING, AND MODERN FEEDING OF CHRISTIANS TO THE LIONS IN RETRIBUTION; CAN WE ALL GROW A PAIR AND DO IT THE CIVILIZED WAY? HOW ABOUT A T.V. OR RADIO SHOW DEBATE BETWEEN THE OFFENDED PARTIES..I KNOW THAT SOUNDS “PREPPY” , BUT AT OLD STETSON UNIVERSITY. “THE BULLY-PULPIT” OF DEBATE WAS ALLOWED (JUST LIKE GREEK OLDEN TIMES) TO ANY SPEAKER TO PRESENT THE FORMAT WITHOUT FEAR OF INTIMIDATION OR RETRIBUTION. UNLESS THE COPS REALLY THINK THIS PERSON PRESENTED A TERRORIST THREAT BY PHOTOGRAPHING SOMETHING SENSITIVE; THEN THEY NEED TO MOVE ON AND DO THE SWORN DUTY TO SERVE AND PROTECT. SHINNING ONE’S ASSHOLE IN PUBLIC OVER SMALL POTATOES IS CRUDE AND UNBECOMING OF A POLICE OFFICER..IT REFLECTS POORLY ON THE FORCE OF BROTHERHOOD EVERYWHERE. MY ADVICE TO ARIZONA..”LET IT GO, GENTLEMEN..SERIOUSLY!”

• 234 TwoSocks // Aug 19, 2009 at 11:58 PM

  The one to blame for all of this is the douchebag nazi judge that signed the search warrant. He should be disbarred immediately, given 10 strokes of the ratton and released to the prison general population.

• 235 Cop GANGS // Sep 1, 2009 at 3:50 PM

  These cops are nothing but GANG members that are DIRTY COPS! SO is that judge Gary DONAHOE! These are people whose paychecks are paid BY THE PEOPLE they harass and take advantage of! It’s time we stand together and take Amercia BACK from the gangs, the thugs and the anti Americans who think they can just walk all over us and no one do a thing to prevent it. I stand for this country, not some hoodlum with a badge.
  Most of us older folks know how to use a gun, have the GUTS to use it, know how to shoot straight and have the backbone to stand up for what we belive in as our FOLKS DID! Get these communist parties out of our nation! FIRE THEM ASAP! This crap has got to stop! It’s a direct VIOLATION TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH! FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION! I take that VERY seriously as my folks gave their life blood defending that right for us!

• 236 Cop GANGS // Sep 1, 2009 at 3:53 PM

  Holly, WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE LAW! WE appoint those to REPRESENT US, not them to rule over us! The laws are inacted for the people by the people by votes if done constitionally! These hoods are making the laws up as they go and pushing the individuals around. They gang up on us we need to gang up on THEM. THROW THEM OUT! RUN THEM OUT ON A RAIL.

• 237 Tamon // Oct 16, 2009 at 5:22 AM

  Very nice website I will study it. Your suggestions were very helpful, Thanks!

• 238 BadPhoenixCops // Dec 14, 2009 at 11:12 PM

  The judge who issued the search warrant(Gary Donahoe) in our case, was himself charged with Bribery and Racketeering. Looks like he took the title “criminal judge” a little too literally.

  No joke. Check it out.

  http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/12/criminal_complaint_filed_again.php

• 239 Emily Cragg, B.S., M.A., webmaster // Dec 15, 2009 at 7:00 PM

  The whole concept of bureaucrazy and top-down hierarchy VIOLATES ever concept of natural or common Law.

  Bureaucrazies and hierarchies are run off secrecy, nepotism, favoritism, bribery, influence-peddling and deceit.

  Let’s make those extinct so that self-governing individual citizens can represent each other and themselves TRUTH-FULLY, without the predations of “higher CASTE professions” ergo Lawyers, paid Judges and Congressman who only cowtow to Corporations, who hold that Law can be twisted to favor Not-SEEING outcomes on the back of the people who work.

• 240 Florida // Jan 15, 2010 at 6:14 PM

  Update: This guy just got indicted. Jeffrey Pataky is charged with perjury and false swearing, a Class 6 felony.

  http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2010/01/14/20100114blogger-phoenix-officer-indicted.html

• 241 PoliceHow // Mar 6, 2010 at 6:11 AM

  Whoa, thats a pretty crazy story. Remind me to store my backup files on a remote server…

• 242 edinburgh photographer // Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 PM

  that’s some messed up stuff!

• 243 anonymous // Apr 17, 2010 at 1:35 PM

  I have been harassed for 6 years by law enforcement across 4 states

  I have no way to even defend myself

  it looks like revenge for uncovering information that was used by a woman to gain equity for sexual harassment from her employers, school admins

  while doing my job I innocently restored a lost pst file holding email that held the email threat to job for sex

  the settlement gave a little explanation why I was threatened by the same admin to be setup to look like a criminal if I did not leave, he most likely did set me up and / or got his buddies on the force to help

  I have never been charged but have been harassed at a high level having my home broke into many times and even 4 separate assaults with night sticks while sleeping

  there seems like no way out, I took a lie detector test to prove my innocence, it did not make a difference

  They almost killed me on one occassion

  I do not know that there will ever be an end

  All because I did the right thing

• 244 BadPhoenixCops // Apr 21, 2010 at 12:10 AM

  All charges were dismissed against the blogger and the cop.

  Looks like the investigating cop lied to the grand jury. Where are all those naysayers now who sided with the cops raiding our blogger’s home?

  http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/19/20100419phoenix-barnes-charges-dropped.html
  BadPhoenixCops´s last blog ..Malfeasance and Corruption Within the Phoenix Police Department? In the Words of Sarah Palin – “You Betcha!” – The 1st of Many Memos by a 24 year Veteran Police Officer – Phil Roberts

• 245 Terence // Apr 22, 2010 at 12:11 PM

  Yes true and very agreeable. Judges are and need to be smart, if they fail to think and accept the Police’s statements then they are Morons!
  That would simply state they should not be Judges, or choas and corruption would ensue.

• 246 steve // Jun 5, 2010 at 6:18 AM

  So this guy is the first man ever harassed by police because his female lover made false accusations?
  In this country (USA) when a female accuses a male of harassment, abuse, or stalking, the male is presumed guilty. If he hires a good lawyer and draws a sympathetic judge, he MIGHT get the opportunity to defend himself against her accusations. But more often, he gets railroaded.

• 247 John Media@dedicated server // Jun 8, 2010 at 10:45 AM

  Wow this news really is disturbing for writers, bloggers and journalists out there. We might be also be harassed by policemen one of these days. We might not know If ever that happens I would be hiding under my bed lol.

• 248 Will Digg // Jun 13, 2010 at 8:55 PM

  I am afraid there are going to be some rough and tumble times on the way for this country. People are going to get fed up with the very actions like these coupled with their inability to do anything about it. What then? Shoot and ask questions later? It won’t surprise me one bit. The new civil war will be the Gov’t against the people.

Leave a Comment

Name

Mail

Website