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	<title>Comments on: Phoenix police harass photographer under Homeland Security pretense</title>
	<atom:link href="http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/</link>
	<description>It's a First Amendment Right</description>
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		<title>By: Adron</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-15597</link>
		<dc:creator>Adron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-15597</guid>
		<description>Came in Phoenix a few days ago.  Today I was hassled about taking photos of transit vehicles, because it is my hobby (ala www.transitsleuth.com)

I ended up calling some Marie Chappel to ask permission to take photos.  I&#039;m not sure who she is exactly, but she said it was ok.

Now do I think, feel, or know this to be a reasonable thing to do?  No I don&#039;t, but I do know it an absolutely absurd, unreasonable, and desecration of any ideal this nation was built on.

If it is illegal by some perversion of the law, or some power grab by Phoenix City officials, it doesn&#039;t matter - IT NEEDS to be repealed immediately out of sanctity for those that fought and founded this nation.  To be harassed for taking pictures is one of the most ridiculous notions ever.

There are a million ways to gain recon for terrorist actions, nobody has ever caught single terrorist by detaining people taking photographs.  It is militant fear mongering at best, and jack boot thuggery at worst.

Either way, I&#039;ll have another blog entry and will be contacting others in relation to this.  People in America need to raise a MASSIVE STINK about this.  If it is photographs now, what is the next thing to fear?  Walking by certain buildings?  Loitering in parks, or heaven forbid playing in parks?  Standing in one&#039;s front yard for too long?  

Who knows, but I dread that it goes further than photography, and hope that those in positions of power will remove their fear they have and stop this nonsense war on photographers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Came in Phoenix a few days ago.  Today I was hassled about taking photos of transit vehicles, because it is my hobby (ala <a href="http://www.transitsleuth.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.transitsleuth.com</a>)</p>
<p>I ended up calling some Marie Chappel to ask permission to take photos.  I&#8217;m not sure who she is exactly, but she said it was ok.</p>
<p>Now do I think, feel, or know this to be a reasonable thing to do?  No I don&#8217;t, but I do know it an absolutely absurd, unreasonable, and desecration of any ideal this nation was built on.</p>
<p>If it is illegal by some perversion of the law, or some power grab by Phoenix City officials, it doesn&#8217;t matter &#8211; IT NEEDS to be repealed immediately out of sanctity for those that fought and founded this nation.  To be harassed for taking pictures is one of the most ridiculous notions ever.</p>
<p>There are a million ways to gain recon for terrorist actions, nobody has ever caught single terrorist by detaining people taking photographs.  It is militant fear mongering at best, and jack boot thuggery at worst.</p>
<p>Either way, I&#8217;ll have another blog entry and will be contacting others in relation to this.  People in America need to raise a MASSIVE STINK about this.  If it is photographs now, what is the next thing to fear?  Walking by certain buildings?  Loitering in parks, or heaven forbid playing in parks?  Standing in one&#8217;s front yard for too long?  </p>
<p>Who knows, but I dread that it goes further than photography, and hope that those in positions of power will remove their fear they have and stop this nonsense war on photographers.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Rosbury</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-15575</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Rosbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-15575</guid>
		<description>It is human nature at this time in our evolution to 
seek power over each other. When a person is made a policeman, that seeking after power is given permission by the state. ------Doug Rosbury</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is human nature at this time in our evolution to<br />
seek power over each other. When a person is made a policeman, that seeking after power is given permission by the state. &#8212;&#8212;Doug Rosbury</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Leuba</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-8659</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Leuba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-8659</guid>
		<description>Hey, I googled it. 
Alternet says, and I think they are right, Under Patriot Act provision covering &quot;suspicious activities&quot; can be interpreted as taking pictures.  That allows police to detain the suspect, obtain personal, identifying information, and check records for reasons to take the person into custody.  But, unless I am mistaken, absent other facts, that is as far as it is allowed to go.   Police CANNOT LEGALLY TAKE ANY PIECE OF PROPERTY WITHOUT A COURT ORDER, and they cannot take anyone into custody without probable cause.  Suspicion is not probable cause.

DISCLAIMER.  I am not a lawyer, and I have not been arrested recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I googled it.<br />
Alternet says, and I think they are right, Under Patriot Act provision covering &#8220;suspicious activities&#8221; can be interpreted as taking pictures.  That allows police to detain the suspect, obtain personal, identifying information, and check records for reasons to take the person into custody.  But, unless I am mistaken, absent other facts, that is as far as it is allowed to go.   Police CANNOT LEGALLY TAKE ANY PIECE OF PROPERTY WITHOUT A COURT ORDER, and they cannot take anyone into custody without probable cause.  Suspicion is not probable cause.</p>
<p>DISCLAIMER.  I am not a lawyer, and I have not been arrested recently.</p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-7622</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-7622</guid>
		<description>Carlos, very sad to see this confirmed so easily. I wonder how they would react to a few hundred people turning up with cameras...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos, very sad to see this confirmed so easily. I wonder how they would react to a few hundred people turning up with cameras&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Miller</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-7617</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-7617</guid>
		<description>KC,

I like the idea. Here is the latest from Phoenix.

http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/06/if-i-catch-you-videotaping-the-building-again-you-will-be-arrested/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KC,</p>
<p>I like the idea. Here is the latest from Phoenix.</p>
<p><a href="http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/06/if-i-catch-you-videotaping-the-building-again-you-will-be-arrested/" rel="nofollow">http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/06/if-i-catch-you-videotaping-the-building-again-you-will-be-arrested/</a></p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-7611</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-7611</guid>
		<description>Carlos,

I was thinking about perhaps getting the local college involved - ASU - (maybe via facebook) for the large numbers that could be drummed up, many photography students, law students etc who be very much into defending our rights to photograph in public.  I would also take the time and effort to identify every photography group that exists in the Valley and contact them to gauge interest and then see about organizing a proper day out for all involved.

Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carlos,</p>
<p>I was thinking about perhaps getting the local college involved &#8211; ASU &#8211; (maybe via facebook) for the large numbers that could be drummed up, many photography students, law students etc who be very much into defending our rights to photograph in public.  I would also take the time and effort to identify every photography group that exists in the Valley and contact them to gauge interest and then see about organizing a proper day out for all involved.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-7595</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-7595</guid>
		<description>Horseshit. There is absolutely no law in place (not the Patriot Act, nothing from Homeland Security — nothing) that requires photographers to present ID or anything. If something can be viewed from a public place, it can be legally photographed.

Make a stink about it. I like the idea of going back with a large group, with the Photographers&#039; Rights in hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horseshit. There is absolutely no law in place (not the Patriot Act, nothing from Homeland Security — nothing) that requires photographers to present ID or anything. If something can be viewed from a public place, it can be legally photographed.</p>
<p>Make a stink about it. I like the idea of going back with a large group, with the Photographers&#8217; Rights in hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew DeFilippis</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-7405</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew DeFilippis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 19:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-7405</guid>
		<description>------------------------------------------------------------
Ruggy  // Apr 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM

@Andrew DeFillipis

Seattle cops are inline with the law? Try photographing the cops during a WTO protest.

Bring your gas mask… Or not, since even those are illegal now.
------------------------------------------------------------
&quot;Riot&quot; policing is a very touchy subject.  There have been issues in the past and there continue to be issues with the way that police handle riots vs. protests.  Quite often, a group &quot;seems&quot; to get out of hand, and the police react way too aggressive.  It happens, and it happens in more places than Seattle.  Does that mean it is okay, no.  And it shows that the city/police are wrong when our tax $$$ get paid out to individuals who are wrongfully arrested.

But besides that, I actually don&#039;t live in Seattle :) and I mentioned that I WOULD expect to be questioned up there ;) -&quot;My experience would most likely change ~40mi north of here in Seattle.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
Ruggy  // Apr 5, 2009 at 9:35 AM</p>
<p>@Andrew DeFillipis</p>
<p>Seattle cops are inline with the law? Try photographing the cops during a WTO protest.</p>
<p>Bring your gas mask… Or not, since even those are illegal now.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
&#8220;Riot&#8221; policing is a very touchy subject.  There have been issues in the past and there continue to be issues with the way that police handle riots vs. protests.  Quite often, a group &#8220;seems&#8221; to get out of hand, and the police react way too aggressive.  It happens, and it happens in more places than Seattle.  Does that mean it is okay, no.  And it shows that the city/police are wrong when our tax $$$ get paid out to individuals who are wrongfully arrested.</p>
<p>But besides that, I actually don&#8217;t live in Seattle <img src='http://carlosmiller.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  and I mentioned that I WOULD expect to be questioned up there <img src='http://carlosmiller.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  -&#8221;My experience would most likely change ~40mi north of here in Seattle.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Melvin Durable</title>
		<link>http://carlosmiller.com/2009/04/02/phoenix-police-harass-photographer-under-homeland-security-pretense/#comment-7381</link>
		<dc:creator>Melvin Durable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 16:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosmiller.com/?p=5582#comment-7381</guid>
		<description>Not good...

Best of luck!


Melvin Durable
melvindurable@gmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not good&#8230;</p>
<p>Best of luck!</p>
<p>Melvin Durable<br />
<a href="mailto:melvindurable@gmail.com">melvindurable@gmail.com</a></p>
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