By Carlos Miller
One cop is accused of raping a female teenager last week while his wife laid passed out on the bed next to them. Police are investigating whether Stephen Olenchak slipped drugs into their drinks.
Another cop is accused of holding a gun to his pregnant wife’s head last month and threatening to kill her before knocking her to the floor in a separate incident later that month. Vally Getejanc and his wife had been married just four days.
And another cop was accused of threatening a woman with arrest if she didn’t perform oral sex on him while he was on duty and in uniform. Twice in one night. Jonathan D. Sanders pleaded no contest to “unlawful compensation” last year and served a mere 60 days in jail. The victim is now suing.
All three of these officers are from the Davie Police Department, a suburban police department in Broward County that employs 171 police officers.
Now Broward suburbanite Rick from the South Florida Daily Blog is reminding us that cops are human and susceptible to weaknesses and stresses like the rest of us, especially because of their “extremely taxing and frustrating job.”
I’m on record here and at the old Stuck on the Palmetto, and at other places in the SoFla blogosphere, of reminding readers that police officers are humans just like everyone else. They make mistakes. Unfortunately, the difference between PO’s and regular citizens is that people expect them to be perfect and immune from the stresses of what can be an extremely taxing and frustrating job. When they prove themselves to be human, their imperfections are often times held in the spotlight and criticized by some, who, quite frankly, apparently forget their own faults and weaknesses.
Yes, I have weaknesses. I have imperfections. And believe me, I have stress. We all do.
But I’ve never been accused of rape. Ive never been accused of slipping a pill into a woman’s drink to knock her out. I’ve never been accused of holding a gun to a woman’s head. And I’ve never been accused of threatening to kill a woman. Especially a woman I supposedly love.
But perhaps I’ve never had such a high stressful job where I am responsible for protecting and serving the public. Where I am given the power to change somebody’s life in an instant if they happen to tick me off.
Where I am given the authority to write “sworn statements” – despite what really occurred – that will go down as the ultimate truth.
Perhaps I’ve never had a job where I am the judge, jury and justice of peace all rolled up into one.
Perhaps I’ve never had a job where I am not only the law, but I could be above the law if I so desired.
Yes, police officers have a demanding job. But they also have a rewarding job. And most importantly, they have a responsible job.
If the stresses and demands of their job force them to commit crimes, then they should be exposed and criticized and publicly flogged.
We pay these officers to protect us, not to turn on us. We pay these officers to rid the streets of criminals, not to become criminals. We pay these officers to enforce existing laws, not to enforce non-existing laws.
And although not every officer is guilty of such behavior, every officer needs to be held accountable when they accept and protect this behavior.
In the case of Sanders, police left blank his place of employment when filling out the police report. They also allowed him to listen in on a call between officers and the man who reported the incident.
But Rick believes that those of us who criticize this behavior are unfairly stereotyping police officers, despite the fact that these incidents are almost everyday occurrences, judging by headlines throughout the country.
They’re not robots. They are humans. When they make mistakes, let’s make sure we deliver the appropriate corrective action. But let’s also make sure we don’t unfairly stereotype a profession and a group of people because of the inappropriate actions of a few.
This from a man who has consistently stereotyped republicans as being hate-mongering terrorists who hate their own country because of the inappropriate actions of a few.
Here is an example of one of Rick’s posts:
SFDB’s Connecting The Dots
Let’s play….
Timothy McVeigh was a Republican.
Atlanta bomber Eric Rudolph was a conservative and a supporter of George W. Bush.
Jim Adkisson hated liberals and was a fan of Michael Savage and Sean Hannity.
Rush Limbaugh wants President Obama’s policies to strengthen America to fail.
Do we really need more dots?
Apparently Rick is unaware that most police officers are registered republicans.
Update: And another Davie cop makes the headlines, according to the Sun Sentinel.
A rookie police officer accused of slamming a 10-year-old boy against his cruiser for skateboarding in the street has received a two-day suspension and been ordered to attend anger management classes.
“He threw him like he was a rag doll,” said the boy’s father, Joseph Smith, who witnessed the April 6, 2008, incident and filed a complaint the next day.
Smith says his son was left with a cut on his knee, a bruise on his chest and a fear of police.
Officer David Rodriguez, 25, declined to comment through his lawyer. But in December he told internal affairs investigator Sgt. Kelly Drum the boy never made contact with his patrol car, according to newly released records.
-30-
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Fernandez, as I mentioned in a 
60 responses so far ↓
1 Oregon Flatfoot // Mar 28, 2009 at 2:15 PM
>despite the fact that these incidents
>are almost everyday occurrences,
>judging by headlines throughout the
>country
Scandal sells and a police officer committing a crime is scandalous. Newspapers are in the business of selling papers. Ergo, a cop charged with a criminal offense will sell help sales.
When you look at cold hard DoJ statistics, however, the per capita crime rate amongst sworn police officers is less than one-hundredth of one percent compared to the general public. That means a random citizen is ten thousand times more likely to commit a crime than a police officer.
Sure, law enforcement officers sometimes commit crimes. When they do, they are punished severely, often much more so than a member of the public. An ex-cop with a criminal record is pretty much unemployable.
I attended the funeral yesterday of the four Oakland police officers murdered in cold blood while on duty. I think their lives exemplify what law enforcement is all about in our country, much more so than the occasional dirty cop who grabs headlines.
2 Duane Kerzic // Mar 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Nobody questions that some cops are heroes. Of course they are. Nobody questions that some cops make mistakes. Mistakes are forgivable, crimes need to be punished.
These guys didn’t make mistakes. Raping a woman, giving someone drugs to have sex with them, demanding oral sex, holding a gun to someones head, these actions aren’t mistakes. These are acts of violence by the individuals involved. They behaved like the worst of the worst and should be treated as such if convicted. If you commit a crime under the color of your uniform that’s not a ‘mistake’ and it should not be excused as a simple ‘mistake’. We double penalties for committing certain crimes in school zones because we think that’s not a ‘mistake’. Crimes committed in uniform or while acting under he color of law should carry treble penalties because they aren’t ‘mistakes’. The cops involved are aware of the rules. These same cops that are making ‘mistakes’ if they caught you making a ‘mistake’ would do their best to get you punished to the utmost.
An ex-cop with a criminal record is unemployable for a reason. These guys don’t get criminal records for making a mistake, they get criminal records for committing serious crimes. When they make mistakes the blue wall of silence protects them more then it protects any of us.
I’m sorry but I find that statistic by the DoJ hard to believe. Especially in light of this story where in a population of 171 officers there are so many serious crimes reported.
I feel sad for the families and loved ones of the Oakland officers. That was a sad situation for everyone.
3 jones // Mar 28, 2009 at 3:29 PM
I think the number one falsely reported crimes are domestic violence and sexual assault. Duane you could probably confirm this from your own experiences. Look at Kobe Bryant, look at the Duke Lacrosse team.
I think if these officers are guilty they should be fired and punished like anybody else, but like anybody else they also are innocent until proven guilty. Just because they are cops they are still entitled to the same rights as everybody else. Just because they are cops doesn’t mean that can’t be a victim of a false criminal complaint.
Almost all officers who are charged with crimes committed on duty are related to use of force and many of those decisions on whether or not to charge them is often political. I don’t think too many officers are out robbing and stealing while on duty, although I’m sure it has happened.
I lot of officers have been charged and found not guilty by a jury. The Rodney King officers were found not guilty by people who saw the whole video not just what they showed on the news. Then they rioted so the feds went after them. A Detroit officer was charged with killing a deaf man who attacked him with a rake and he was found not guilty by a jury again I think the decision to charge him was political.
4 NYCPhotorights // Mar 28, 2009 at 6:10 PM
I would add that three officers who commit such acts out of a department of only 171 is a rather significant percentage. Their HR department needs to improve its screening.
If the same percentage of officers were bad on the NYPD then it would mean that we would have had over 700 similar incidents occurring here, which of course does NOT happen.
5 Duane Kerzic // Mar 28, 2009 at 6:23 PM
Jones,
The officer that was asking for oral sex pleaded no contest to “unlawful compensation” which leads me to believe the woman was a prostitute and that’s what he was going to arrest her for unless he was compensated accordingly, this is an assumption. What is a plead of “no contest”? It’s not a guilty plea but it is a plea indicating that you are sure you can be found guilty beyond a resonable doubt without an admission of guilt.
Now I’d agree that domestic voilence in some states is a crime that’s falsely accused often. Especially here in NJ becuase this is a crime you are guilty of when charged and have to prove you are innocent of. But the people that I know that have been charged with domestic voilence weren’t accused of holding a gun to their wives heads. I’d say that’s intirely a different level of threat than anyone I know showed. Why would the wife of 4 days claim that when she could have just said he punched her to get the same effect? We will see what happens as this one goes to court.
The one with the rape of a girl over 12 that was visiting him and his wife. Why did he have a teenager over his house that wasn’t related to him? But I’ll also wait on the court case on this one.
As far as Rodney King. I’ve seen the whole video. Are you trying to tell me that the continual beating of Mr. King was proper? The feds didn’t just go after them because of the riot. The feds went after them because they did in fact violate Mr. Kings civil rights.
I don’t know the particulars of the deaf man attacking the Detroit Police Officer with the rake. But I do know that the Detroit Police Department is one of the worst in the country when it comes to violating the citizens rights.
6 Carlos Miller // Mar 28, 2009 at 6:34 PM
Duane,
Did you click on the link of that story?
One of the cops called it a “rape.”
Police deleted the woman’s name from all records because the crime is considered rape, Sgt. Kelly Drum said.
Yet the police department and prosecutors charged Sanders with unlawful compensation, saying he exchanged sex for the “past, present, or future performance (or) non-performance” of his duty, according to the charging document.
7 Duane Kerzic // Mar 28, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Carlos,
I didn’t read the full story until now. I can see the problems with that case. But I also think the cop got lots special treatment. What would have happened in a trail I’m not sure.
My point was that this was not an accusation. This guy was actually charged and convicted in a court so he wasn’t falsely charged. Sanders is a very bad person that was also wearing a police uniform. To say he served with distinction isn’t fair. If we unzipped to urinate behind the McDonald’s we’d get charged with something like public lewdness. I believe the story because if his intention was to just urinate he would have gone inside to do so. He used the urination as an excuse to show himself to that woman and should be a registered sex offender.
8 genewitch // Mar 28, 2009 at 7:15 PM
i don’t have a problem with cops in general and i don’t think carlos does either. however his blg is about first amendment civil liberty violations; as such the percentage of stories involving law enforcement officers that are out of line is going to be extremely high.
as such i understand the apologists for the police and also the outrage of normal citizens. as any news source take this blog with a helping of skepticism and research yourself if you don’t agree.
9 Vidiot // Mar 28, 2009 at 9:16 PM
I think that most cops are good cops, and do a good job for far too little pay or respect. Most cops play by the rules and have a very difficult job to do, which they do well.
However, that means that when there are bad apples — and they’re definitely out there — they should definitely be criticized and held up as bad examples. The “blue wall of silence” doesn’t do anyone in the community any favors.
The vast majority of cops follow the law…but those who make up the laws, break the laws, or who enforce them in an arbitrary or brutal manner need to be called on it.
10 Rick // Mar 28, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Carlos: I’ll mention your name when I post about you. You’re the last person I think about these days.
Why are you so defensive?
.
11 Carlos Miller // Mar 28, 2009 at 10:40 PM
Rick,
It’s amazing how you continually miss my point.
No, I did not think your post this afternoon had anything to do with me.
I just have an issue with you justifying these cops’ behaviors as being human imperfections and a result of job stress.
I used myself as an example because I am the epitome of imperfection. But I am not a criminal.
And there’s a big difference, Rick.
12 Scott Chamness // Mar 28, 2009 at 11:44 PM
I think we all appreciate real officers, but the ones that break the laws can hardly be called officers. I feel I have just as much right to criticize officers when they do something wrong as I do when a regular civilian does the same thing. I don’t care about all that, “they have a hard job and are in constant danger” stuff, I know it’s true, but most everybody else can get through it ok. I also bet the people that make that argument still complain, as the rest of us do, about congress and the presidents and such, when they live in constant danger of assassination and such.
Why is it that cops who are criminals are so protected?
13 Andrew DeFilippis // Mar 29, 2009 at 12:59 AM
People who think all cops are bad need to be informed better. Police are hired to protect and serve. Almost all follow the laws. Can they screw up some times, yes. But the majority of the time, they are professional and follow the rules.
The few police officers that decide to commit crimes cause the entire force to be looked down upon.
It is like voyeurism. The idiots that stick cameras in their shoes to look up skirts, or take photographs of people who have a reasonable expectation of privacy. They ruin photography for the rest of us law abiding photographers. We get accosted for taking pictures of people in public places and then have to defend ourselves or be threatened to delete photographs.
And it’s good that Carlos has this blog to point out the incidents where cops infringe on our rights as photographers. If he didn’t have this blog, we would rarely hear about these incidents.
The overall police force is decent. There are some bad eggs on the force, but those need to be found and removed.
14 LoTek // Mar 29, 2009 at 1:56 AM
I have no empathy or sympathy for the types of transgressions that are being discussed here (I will not speak to the cases themselves – because as Jones pointed out they are entitled to the presumption of innocence). These officers have a trust placed in them by thier communities; they are guns, given powers of arrest and expected to uphold the law.
The job is an extreemly stressful one and it is tempting to easily forgive the ‘mistakes’ of peace officers as they do so much good for our communities. I agree that crimes by police officers must be treated differently that for the average citizen. However, I believe they must be held to a significantly higher standard than the rest of society – ie. double or tripple the penalties.
I am consistently disgusted with the ammount of cover-ups and easy outs offered to these officers, because ,”Hey they’re the good guys”. NO THEY ARE NOT! Police Officers, the military and other like public servants are put in positions of trust and when they break that trust they drag down thier peers, their communities, and their society. The harm they do is greater and the consequences should follow accordingly.
I do have sympathy for mistakes. But the only way to deal with mistakes is honestly and openly. Failure to do so only leads to the ‘them or us’ mentality. This is cultural thing that has been missing from many forces, but needs to be returned. Mistakes happen, covering up mistakes is criminal. Peace officers need to hold each other to these standards or they undermine the integrity of thier entire force. I would much rather take down a close friend and co-worker than watch him take down everything for which I stand.
In the interest of disclosure – I am not a peace officer, but I am and officer in the military.
15 the lone white boy // Mar 29, 2009 at 2:03 AM
they are given the public’s trust ….. and when they betray that trust…. they deserve severe penalties.
“Stress” is not an excuse to betray said trust.
16 the lone white boy // Mar 29, 2009 at 2:26 AM
to oregon flatfoot:
I dont see Police officers getting severely punished. Nearly every public story of the police getting caught breaking the law or the public’s trust….. what seems to always happen is that they are given a paid vacation, a slap on the wrist which is usually “retraining” or nothing at all.
And at worst they are offered a choice…. quitting or getting fired. As you well know this is done so that an officer can quit & then easily get another job somewhere’s else. Do not even pretend that the police dont protect each other in this regard.
It is rare that police are fired…. its usually in the cases where their crimes are so blatent & outrageous (and caught on tape to where it is undeniable). To where the public outcry is fierce. Many times if it werent for the public outcry… their crimes would be covered up/ swept under the rug.
17 m // Mar 29, 2009 at 9:25 AM
“Its only a couple of police officers who are bad apples.”
No, its not. The biggest problem are the police officers who cover up for the so called “few bad apples.” The ones who pretend that having a badge gives a LEO the right to commit crimes without being either accused, tried or punished.
Police cover up crimes committed by other policemen. Not just taking meals and bribes, but murder, rape, sodomy and extortion. Police not only cover up those crimes, but they use and abuse political power to shove those crimes under the carpet by accusing the victim of crimes. Police will hold mass demonstrations, commit mob violence, conduct mass code enforcement, and use the “Blue Flu” to get the heat taken off corrupt officers. I watched the violent mob actions against NYC City Hall carried out by police defending the murderous cops who almost killed Abner Louima by sodomizing him with a nightstick. That and other cases.
Until the police are more aggressive against crime within their own ranks than they are against crime in the general population, they are guilty of being accomplices after the fact. They are felonious conspirators to cover up crimes against the population they are sworn to serve and protect. The “Blue Wall of Silence” makes criminals of all those who acquiesce to such crimes.
18 Alberto de la Cruz // Mar 29, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Yes, all cops are humans, and yes, they are all susceptible to the same faults everyone else is. But being a cop carries with it a huge responsibility few others have to shoulder–the complete and total trust of the public–and the penalties for breaching that trust should reflect that. Along with the added responsibilities comes extraordinary powers and authority, and for that reason, a police officer cannot be judged the same as a carpenter or a plumber committing the same crime.
19 Chuck // Mar 29, 2009 at 3:13 PM
One town is not a representative example for all of America. Davie is but one town. To assume the same rate of problem police for all towns defies logic and common sense.
20 Duane Kerzic // Mar 29, 2009 at 3:27 PM
As I read these comments I think I’m misunderstanding Carlos’ intent.
To me a crime is something you do intentionally. A mistake is something to do well by accident, forgetfulness or omission.
For instance, a police officer is supposed to file a police report by 5pm. He falls asleep and doesn’t file the report. That’s a mistake, file the report and who cares. He’s writing the report and he’s notes got messed up and he can’t read them so he puts down the wrong name. That’s a mistake, correct the report and who cares.
Now on the other hand. He’s writing his report and he starts making crap up so that he can testalie in court because he’s going by what’s in his report. That’s not a mistake, that’s a purpose. That’s a crime.
I’m sure that everyone that’s been around guns has taken some kind of safety class. Never point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot. So when you point a gun at your wife’s head that’s not a mistake. That’s a purpose and a crime.
Everyone knows rape is against the law and is a crime of violence. It’s taking something by force (chemical intoxication, threatened action, ect. are all forces) that you don’t have a right to after all. That’s not a mistake. That’s a purpose and a crime.
I object to using the word mistake to discribe what any criminals do. It’s why I was putting it in quotes. They use the word mistake so that they can lessen the impact of their actions and escape responsibility. You bump into someone by mistake, when you punch them it’s intentional.
21 jones // Mar 29, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Duane, when you beat up your girlfriend was that a mistake or a crime?
22 Mark Jackson // Mar 29, 2009 at 6:25 PM
I was married to law enforcement. I have been the victim of police misconduct on more than one occasion.
The commenter on the top says:
“When you look at cold hard DoJ statistics, however, the per capita crime rate amongst sworn police officers is less than one-hundredth of one percent compared to the general public. That means a random citizen is ten thousand times more likely to commit a crime than a police officer.”
Let’s not forget that it is the police who police their own. It is a known fact that police protect their own. I am sure that the DOJ does not publish that in their findings. Anyone who pretens that LEO’s get the same penalties as the public is out of their mind or is a LEO themselves (which means the same thing).
The fact is, there are no studies that show this truth and it is up to us to make sure that officers who break the law see the fullest extent of the law.
When officers break the law, it confirms our worst fear, that they have probably been doing it for a long time and this time, was so blatant, that the officers were finally caught.
If I have a stressful job, I do not get the luxury of my buddies being able to cover up my crimes. Stress does not cause you to file false reports, to try and jail those who are innocent.
I think that if you made a law (and I am working on one in my state) that made the crimes committed by officers and public officials subject to the maximum penalties or better yet, mandatory doubling of the maximum, then we could rest peaceably at night that corruption was put in its place. After all, if we can trust the integrity of our officers, then they have nothing to fear.
There are ways to combat this criminal behavior. Stop by http://www.ruleoflawradio.com and listen to people who have found a way to hold them accountable. (not my site)
23 LoTek // Mar 29, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Duane,
In general I take your point about the difference between mistakes and purposeful crimes. I think for the sake of the acts being discussed most if not all would agree that these are not mistakes.
However, when discussing the actions of of peace officers or anyone with a specialized skill set there are some additional considerations. One of the most prevalent and fuzzy areas of law is the concept of ‘reasonable’ acts. Peace officer recieve special training in weapons handling, ethics and the managed application of violence (apparently some have been cutting class). Because of this additional training, they are (or certainly should be) held to a higher standard because they have knowledge and experience specific to crime they have the standard of what is a reasonable act must adjusted accordingly.
I’m having trouble making this point clearly…
eg. If a normal citizen were in a scuffle to mistake a Tazer for a Sig, this could be accepted as reasonable. The additional training provided to peace officers who carry and use these weapons on a regular basis makes this a mistake that is unreasonable in a police officer. This, IMNSHO, elevates what might be a charge of manslaughter to 2nd degree murder. [Personally, I don't buy the thought it was a Tazer argument in the BART case , I'm just using it for illustrative puposes]
When dealing with mistakes in the context of trained proffessionals, certain mistakes are criminal. I don’t think this contrary to the intent of Duane’s last post, but I feel that it is relevant to the discussion.
24 LoTek // Mar 29, 2009 at 6:59 PM
I think it can be agreed by most that the actions that spurred this discussion are not mistakes, but I’m glad that thread has moved into some of the larger issues here.
The issue of mistakes by LEOs requires a bit more thought. One of the most nebulous concepts in law is the idea of ‘reasonable’. The additional training recieved by LEOs in weapons handling, law, ethics and the managed use of violence (though clearly some have been skipping classes), changes what can reasonably be expected from them. For example – If an average Joe mistook a Sig for a Tazer, well I might be able to accept his actions as reasonable. However, when a LEO who is trained and experienced with these weapons makes the same error it is not at all reasonable and elevates the crime from Manslaughter to 2nd Degree Murder (IMHO).
BTW – I do not buy the defence in the BART case, I’m just using it for illustration of the point
This is why LEOs and many other professionals should be held to a higher standard.
@Mark,
I agree that the stats of LEO crimes rates when compared to the general population are bunk. I would find it shocking if the ‘thin blue line’ mentality didn’t lead to a significant under reporting of LEO crimes, but I don’t think that any informed discussion of the subject can take place without acurate stats.
My impression is that the strong majority of LEOs are earnest professional who take the trust placed in them by the public seriously. It is highly improbable that in any population the size of LEOs in the US, that there would not be a significant number of wanton criminals. The real question is how to structure the system to minimize the harm that they are capable of inflicting and punish them when they engage in unacceptable behaviour. This saddly appears to be a massive failure as the system is more intent on protecting bad officers because admitting the problem might hurt the force.
25 Mark Jackson // Mar 29, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Lotek,
Isn’t that the point? There will never be statistics on this issue that accurately reflect the truth. Common sense dictates that the best we can do is conjecture or rely on what the police are telling us. If they are committing the crimes, then you must consider the source.
What I have seen, first hand, is that the mentality of officers is skewed. It is a far cry from the intent of the original framers of the Constitution. (This opens up a much wider issue.)
I have done a lot of work with judicial reform. I have handed criminal complaints to judges, about judges who have committed crimes. They are protected.
I absolutely agree with you on the mistakes issue.
Let’s discuss the BART issue: The officer who made a “mistake” worked diligently to 1) Hide evidence 2) lie about the evidence 3) cover up his crime 4) commit further crimes like theft, kidnapping and official oppression (US 18 § 242) I can think of numerous other things, but for the sake of discussion, let’s just get to it. What did the majority of the “honorable officers” do? They helped him.
They had a duty to arrest him and they did not. They had a duty to report the issue, tell the truth, diligently defend the public. They did not.
What did this guy do to deserve death? What did he do to deserve being detained?
I could give statistics on arrests and other issues, but the fact is that we have to wake up and realize that your rights are being taken. It’s only getting worse and you won’t know it’s too late until you are victimized like Carlos or worse.
A great quote on a defense attorney’s website:
“We, as criminal defense lawyers, are forced to deal with some of the lowest people on earth, people who have no sense of right and wrong, people who will lie in court to get what they want, people who do not care who gets hurt in the process.
It is our job–our sworn duty–as criminal defense lawyers to protect our clients from those people.”
26 LoTek // Mar 29, 2009 at 9:13 PM
Mark,
I don’t want to get pulled off on the BART incident as it has been discussed at length elsewhere in these forums. I am in agreement that every officer involved should be shot and pissed on. I only used it as an example of where mistakes take on a criminal nature when applied to specially trained individuals.
With regards to police crime stats. I am not arguing against the perception that most LEAs are xenophobic and under report officer misconduct. But I am hesitent to assume that the majority of officers are part of the problem based on incomplete evidence. Where there is real evidence that misconduct is systemic (like the Davie Dept) there needs to be a complete house cleaning.
I stand by my original post that protecting fellow officers is a practice that wholely undermines these departments and any officer serving in them. Any officer who wishes to do the hard work of salvaging thier reputation needs to step forward and rat thier buddies out. Unfortunately, most good officers choose to leave instead – a choice that, given the dangers of pissing off a bunch of corrupt, armed, self-righteous good ol’ boys is somewhat forgiveable.
Sorry if my last post appeared to back down from this stance.
Love the quote
[Sorry for any redundant posts - I've been getting timeouts when submitting]
27 Henry Gomez // Mar 29, 2009 at 10:35 PM
First of all the political affiliation of police officers has nothing to do with this discussion. But you really demonstrate that the emperor of south florida blogdom has no clothes when you show how willing he is to paint people with a broad brush when it suits him and then he turns around with that wimpy “they have such stressful jobs excuse.”
Yes, police officers are human. Yes they commit crimes and make mistakes. They should be held to the same level of accountability as any citizen, if not higher. These individuals have sworn an oath to administer the law. You and I haven’t.
I’m not going to say all cops are corrupt or criminals. That would be asinine. But one of the big problems in our society is that we have become too permissive when it comes to real wrong-doing. We lower our expectations of public officials. And keep lowering them.
Bottom line is that this is one of the oldest arguments in the book: does one bad apple spoil the whole bunch? The answer of course should be no. But the bad apples need to be made into examples so as not to spoil the whole bunch.
I think we saw the outcome of rampant police corruption in New Orleans, post Katrina. While the media was looking for reasons to bash the Federal government, New Orleans finest were busy shaming their profession. Many of them abandoned their posts, etc.
As for Rick, he can blow me. He’s such a fucking delusional idiot.
28 genewitch // Mar 29, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Jones, you can’t make a single post without a logical fallacy creeping up.
the comment about Duane’s wife; that’s called begging the question.
It’s a logical fallacy.
Furthermore it’s irrelevant, as Duane isn’t a law enforcement officer… right?
29 Andrew DeFilippis // Mar 30, 2009 at 6:34 AM
Wherever some of you are living, where your police force is ridiculously out of line, must have some seriously corrupt mofos commanding them.
The police force in my city is fairly clean AFAIK.
30 Silver // Mar 30, 2009 at 11:21 AM
I didn’t think Rick was ‘justifying’ the actions of these officers at all. I thought he was getting prepared for all the people who were going to be bashing him for hating cops.
My interpretation was that he was not trying to lump all of them together. I though he was trying to say that there are good ones out there as well. Now, I guess he’s gonna have to defned himself from people who say that he is ‘pro-police’ and that they can do no wrong by him.
31 Chuck // Mar 30, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Here’s a great story about the reality of law enforcement:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/chd668
A heroic cop is wounded three times but he still manages to stop a bloodthirsty murderer. Officer Justin Garner put his life on the line to help total strangers.
Of course, the cop haters don’t want you to hear stories like this.
32 LoTek // Mar 30, 2009 at 5:58 PM
I don’t think your perception that the people here are ‘cop haters’ is acurate – or particularly helpful to the discussion.
I for one deeply appreciate officers like Ofc Garner. What is being discussed is the corruption and abuse within LEAs. I believe this is actually a pro-cop stance because bad LEOs and corrupt departments hurt the reputation and credebility of good officers.
I doubt this will change the mind of of people like Chucky, but I am continuously am disappointed by these types of ad hominem posts. They ad nothing to the [mostly] intelligent and reasonable exchange of ideas, and cast a bad light on those of who are pro-law enforcement but willing to engage in sensible discussion of the issues.
33 MillerTime // Mar 30, 2009 at 6:49 PM
Police officers do have difficult jobs that may require analyzing their split second decisions in a context different from the average citizen. However, it is never acceptable to knowingly and deliberately violate another human being. Their is no color of law that can cover such abuse. Officers who abuse citizens in a such a callous fashion make the work of law enforcement more dangerous, and yes more stressful.
As for Carlos’ un-sourced assertion that most police officers are Republican, I can find no data to back that up. Police officers likely follow the same political registration patterns as their localities and socio-economic status dictate.
34 Chuck // Mar 30, 2009 at 11:58 PM
Unfortunately, LoTek doesn’t seem to understand what “ad hominem” means but whatever.
This site is rife with cop haters. I read comments here for a long time before I first posted, but I just got sick of the constant whining from the cop haters I finally spoke up. People make sweeping statements here all the time about police officers without having a clue what they’re talking about.
I see people repeatedly posting here who presume most police officers are corrupt, they’re all covering up for each other, they’re lazy, they’re incompetent, on and on and on.
They hate cops. It’s that simple. They’re no better than the animals who cheer and clap when a police officer is wounder or killed, like the barbarians did in Oakland after the police officers were shot down in cold blood.
35 Carlos Miller // Mar 31, 2009 at 1:04 AM
Chuck,
Nobody here has ever cheered the murder of a cop.
We just don’t like cops acting like criminals. It’s apologists like you that allow these thugs to give the rest of the police force a bad name.
I don’t know if you ever read the post I did when one of the cops who arrested me was murdered, but I sure as hell wasn’t cheering.
http://carlosmiller.com/2008/01/09/slain-police-officer-was-one-of-the-five-who-arrested-me-last-february/
36 missingxtension // Mar 31, 2009 at 1:24 AM
Well chuck I have an interesting post here from a very questionable source, the huffington
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamper
I do understand where cops are coming from, as a matter of fact I have a family member who is actively pursuing a public servant carer.
You also fail to notice that the Oakland police department has had a lot of problems with police brutality, including this new years.
But eventually people have to reach out and understand where the other person is coming from, if not problems will never be solved.
p.s. Bluemustbetrue.com is where I got the norm stamper link from.
37 Seattle Sarge // Mar 31, 2009 at 12:23 PM
You also fail to notice that the Oakland police department has had a lot of problems with police brutality, including this new years.
Are you referring to the Oscar Grant incident? If so, the Oakland Police Department was not involved. That was an entirely different agency: the BART Police Department.
That aside, are you suggesting that an unrelated charge of police brutality somehow mitigates the wholesale slaughter of four police officers who have never had a charge of brutality leveled against them? Why are you even bringing up police brutality in any discussion about the supreme sacrifice of the four officers who bravely and selflessly gave their lives in protecting the public?
38 LoTek // Mar 31, 2009 at 9:00 PM
@Chuck:
ad hominem – (latin) translated as ‘at the man’ or ‘against the man’.
I was refering to your use of the term ‘cop hater’ to attack those who don’t automatically side with LEOs. This label denengrates the arguments on the other side of the debate without any meritorious argument of its own. I had to laugh when I re-read my post though, as I was in a foul mood and was myself guilty of an ad hominem attack in the same sentence. I called you Chucky rather than Chuck – sorry.
What I was so ineloquently trying to say was that although there are certainly a number of people on these forums that hate the police, I think the majority of criticism here is well reasoned and specific to police misconduct. Throwing down examples of hero cops does nothing to diminish the arguments of those who are criticizing a completely different behaviour.
Nor does your assertion that people here don’t know what they are talking about sway the argument much. The fact is that many here do. You may choose not to accept people’s credentials given the nature of forums, but certainly most have at least the appearance of legitimacy. I myself am an officer in the military trained and experienced in open hand combat, intermediate and deadly weapons and use of force. And although I’ve had to apply them in much uglier places than Miamii or Oakland, I have never acted in anger or used more force than necissary. Should I do so, I expect my buddies to flatten my nuts with the biggest hammer at thier disposal and then report it to higher authority.
But I’m off point – people do not require any expertise to call bullshit on obvious cases of corruption or abuse of power. I don’t care how stressful and precarious the job is. I don’t care how many people you’ve saved through heroic action. Abuse of power is not excused by these things. I value the officers that protect me, but I expect them to be held to a high standard because of the powers that they are given. All people seem to be demanding on this thread is transparency and acountability. Seems reasonable to me.
39 missingxtension // Apr 1, 2009 at 12:05 AM
first off let me the first to say that it is impressive that a Seattle Sarge is joining the conversation. It is very good to see that you are taking the time to get involved and looking at the issues laid out here, and of course clearing up misconceptions.
I do also want to clear up that “brutality somehow mitigates the wholesale slaughter” is not at all what anyone is saying. Most of the people who ever have an encounter with a police officer only see the suit. Police officers act as an entity, so it is natural to have the same expectation that you personality had with a previous officer. If someone wanted me to pick a motorcycle cop form a line up I would definitely not be able to point him out. The all wear black suits, or blue in some places, have boots, and wear glasses. They might change in skin color, hair cuts, facial hair or such, but i don’t normally pay attention to that. But if we needed to pick a person with a gouty, and dreads that was wearing a white cap, blue nike shirt, and yellow shorts. Then the situation would change.
We all have expectations from Police officers, and those expectations are laid out in laws.
Has anyone ever gone into a Police Station and try to file a complaint on a Police officer?
For god sakes my mother got arrested at her workplace, a 53 year old woman. She was at the back of the restaurant taking out the thrash. She sees 2 cars and one SUV in the shadow at 11pm at night. They are all talking outside of the vehicles, what is an old lady supposed to do? Then they don’t even identify themselves as Police when they rush towards her, so she runs to the front of the store where her boss is waiting to take her home. So they rush her then, she is scared so she is yelling in Spanish out for her boss. What do the Police officers do, well the usual stuff, man handle and hand cuffs and put her in the swat car. By that the time her boss hears all the commotion and comes around, she is already in the swat car and was charged with assault of a public servant. She had bitten one of the Police woman’s hair while they were man handling her. If they had used the amber and blue lights, guess what her boss would have come around to the back from the beginning.
My mother suffers from depression that latter on manifests into schizophrenia. She was scared to death.
You have t to understand that most of the people who want more oversight are usually directly affected by the actions of the choices a Police officer makes.
40 missingxtension // Apr 1, 2009 at 12:20 AM
I am going to save you a long post. After talking to internal affairs, (one of the officers was a sergeant, the SUV), seeking legal council, attempting to access the dash cam video, seeking out the local media, and trying to get her a lawyer to represent her. It all proved fruitless, it turned out that 3 days after the arrest we learn that supposedly they were looking for a person who was running around naked, in the back of businesses, where the houses are fenced behind an alley separating the businesses, and of course they some how think that an old lady taking out the thrash fits the description.
Things would have worked out better if the police would
a) treated and understood people with mental disabilities
b) would have just gotten someone who speaks good Spanish, she knows English but she was terrified
c) Irving did not have such a tarnished reputation with the Hispanic community.
41 Valerie Parkhurst // Apr 18, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Wow just found this site this am..I also am a victim of Davie Police misconduct and one of their most vocal critics.
Davie PD is out of control. Where most average citizens would go to the wall for their police departments, Davie is making its citizens run for cover. We arent sure how they are going to react in their daily interactions with the public. But we know chances at this point arent going to be good. For those of us who grew up in this town, we are embarrassed, humiliated and now fed up with the Weekly headlines of Rogue police Officers who obviously have no control over themselves.
I ran into two yesterday at lunch in Oakland Park..they were pretty decent until they realized who I was…
Davie officer “Dont you live in Davie?”
Me ” I’m not telling you where I live”.
Davie Officer “I’ll find out where you live”.
Like thats gonna take a huge effort? With me being as vocal as I am. Maybe they thought that was going to intimidate me? I am way past that now. Keep in mind I was polite and non-threatening and didnt make any derogatory remarks what so ever..It wasnt the place or time to engage in a discussion of my issues with them. But thats what I got as a parting shot from them..Why? Playing tough guy?
With all fairness , we use to have a really decent Police department, the officers were well rounded and respected. In fact I remember the days when the average citizen gave the “thumbs Up” to their PD and wouldnt tolerate any disparaging remarks against them. Now as I think back, you would have been hard-pressed to find one Davie Resident who would have tolerated a bad word about “their cops” ..unless you were a bad guy. The Police have gone a 180 degrees since those days..no one seems to know how we got to this place. You have to understand this is one town who “loved their Police department” thats why all of this is so heartbreaking…
42 Voice of Reason // Apr 18, 2009 at 1:44 PM
Note to Valerie Parkhurst: If you don’t mind a suggestion, it might be a good idea to keep an audio recorder of some kind running as you go about your business during the day. Possibly a voice-activated device.
Important: It should not be something that you’d need to reach into your pocket to activate. Under the circumstances, it would be risky to use a device that you’d need to reach for.
I’m certain that some of the people who frequent this site would be able to advise you on related technical issues. Additionally, if the police learn that you’re recording them and they confiscate the recording, Mr. Miller would probably be interested in writing about it.
43 Voice of Reason // Apr 18, 2009 at 2:58 PM
Note to Valerie Parkhurst: If you don’t mind a suggestion, it might be a good idea to keep an audio recorder of some kind running as you go about your business during the day. Possibly a voice-activated device.
Important: It should not be something that you’d need to reach into your pocket to activate. Under the circumstances, it would be risky to use a device that you’d need to reach for.
I’m certain that some of the people who frequent this site would be able to advise you on related technical issues. Additionally, if the police learn that you’re recording them and they confiscate the device, Mr. Miller would probably be interested in writing about it.
44 Valerie Parkhurst // Apr 18, 2009 at 5:04 PM
Thanks for the Head’s up on a audio device..
They make no secret that there is practically a “bounty on my head” in public and police forums.
They linked my website up to LEOAFFAIRS with the pictures of myself and my family
Threatened that I had better use my turn signal at all times
and a few more REALLY derogatory comments that shouldnt be posted here.
Hey I am a tough girl, I can take pretty much what this rogue department can dish out, but whats troubling is the mentality behind it…almost like “we cant be touched” attitude.
You have to wonder where this mindset festers from, I have but two conclusions..unions who have gained so much power that trickles down to the uniforms themselves and superiors who have no control over the attitude or misdeeds their officers get involved in.
I truly believe the average citizen who has no “skin in the game”, has no concept of how “out of control” police officers can get when their immediate supervisors and fellow police fall into that “gang mentality mode”
Whats disheartening is when our fellow citizens attack those who have been victims of this mentality. I have been pretty lucky in a sense that most people when they read of my “arrest from hell” were pretty outraged by it and very supportive of my predicament.
In fact the nastiest comments I got( no surprise) were obviously from LE.
Ya know Americans are starting to realize that not everything is as it appears to be..perhaps we were picked to be some sort of messengers that must take the issue of “Police misconduct” to the Public and insist that as citizens of a free country, this type of conduct cannot be allowed to run rampant against its own people. Especially when NO CRIMES WERE COMMITTED.
The one unwavering statement I can make is if this could happen to ME, this could happen to anyone.
I am reading about more and more “ME’s” everyday…something is wrong here.
45 Kelly // Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM
NO, it is NOT UNFAIR because they ALL abuse their power AND they create a BLUE WALL (or black, or brown, or whatever color their uniform is) to protect each other. Check out what else these Nazi’s do! –>> http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts230.html
46 Kelly // Aug 23, 2009 at 1:55 PM
The book to read: –>>The Tyranny of Good Intentions: How Prosecutors and Law Enforcement Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice
Description: In this sobering wake-up call, the authors claim that the wars we’ve waged against perceived social ills carry with them a hidden cost of harrowing proportions: the loss of personal liberties as old as the Magna Carta.
In this updated and expanded edition ofThe Tyranny of Good Intentions, Paul Craig Roberts and Lawrence M. Stratton renew their valiant campaign to reclaim that which is rightly ours–liberty protected by the rule of law. They show how crusading legislators and unfair prosecutors are remaking American law into a weapon wielded by the government and how the erosion of the legal principles we hold dear–such as habeas corpus and the prohibition against self-incrimination–is destroying the presumption of innocence. A new introduction and new chapters cover recent marquee cases and make this provocative book essential reading for anyone who cringes at the thought of unbridled state power and sees our civil liberties slowly slipping away in the name of the War on Drugs, the War on Crime, and the War on Terror.
47 Valerie Parkhurst // Aug 23, 2009 at 2:01 PM
I dont know if many of you remember the “Miami River Cops”..after Mariel, South Florida went on a hiring rampage to deal with the crimewave that came with it. The only pre-requisite was the ability to speak “spanish”.
The movie (Scarface) as popular as it was wasnt too far off the mark when it came to the streets of Miami..and it hasnt improved much either..
But I digress, the “River Rat Cops” loved to extort the cocaine importers on each load. “Monroe County” had a similar reputation.
The Miami River Cops and the subsequent publicity, showed that not everyone who wears a badge does it for the most noble of reasons. In Florida it was probably the most high profile of “rotten cops” ever to make the papers..but they werent just corrupt, they were murderous and worse than the guys we paid them to deal with.. Is it ok to question the powers that citizens depend on for our most basic services, if not we might as well be some communist regime that turns us into sheep…
48 Kelly // Aug 23, 2009 at 2:01 PM
The criminals with badges in Bellevue, NE. hack into my computer and follow what I post. They also tap my telephone line, and they have entered my home illegally, all of which is being investigated. I am sure they are reading this now, so I will just let them PONDER who it is in what high place that is coming after them. LMFAO!
49 Kelly // Aug 23, 2009 at 2:11 PM
The criminals with badges in Bellevue, NE. are ALSO our Volunteer Fire Dept. and they are ALSO our EMT’S. Those volunteers that are not criminals with badges are lorded over by those who are! SO, if you want to live in BELLEVUE, NE. just remember that all you have to do to live here SAFELY is to surrender your civil rights as a citizen of the United States of America; if you do that then chances are pretty good (not guaranteed) that they won’t shoot you, let your house burn, or let you linger and die needlessly. Oh, and if you are a female and having a heart-attack (or think you might be) the emt’s in Bellevue, NE. (who are lorded over by the Bellevue Police Department) will expose your breasts to put the sticky things on to hook you up to some kind of monitor, and then they will leave your bare breasts hanging out for all the other emt’s to see, and to entertain any of the many criminals with badges that happen to wonder onto the scene (because they can’t find any crime to take care of). Yep folks, you want to keep your family’s far away from Bellevue, NE. It’s a real “nazi-ville”. Oh, and they LIKE for child abusers to live within the city limits, that’s why there are so many perverts living in Bellevue. BELLEVUE, NEBRASKA is NOT A GOOD PLACE FOR FAMILIES!
50 Valley Gator // Sep 4, 2009 at 2:25 PM
Someone with family so predisposed to violence against children should not be publicly insulting cops. Tisk Tisk.
Valigator once wrote:
Posted by Valerie on Dec 08, 2005 03:37 PM | Also by Valerie
Gender: Female, Age Bracket: 50 – 59, State: Florida, Country: United States
——————————————————————————–
I have to tell you a quick story, I was out at the rental cleaning it up prior to a tenant moving in. My son who was I think about 25 at the time and he is a big boy…my car was parked in the swale, 2 houses down across the street was a basketball hoop with maybe 10 kids playing in the street. I heard the ball hit my car and nicely came outside and asked them to be careful with my car and I would move it if they needed me too..Now that was nice right? One kid, took the basket ball and threw it right at my side panel..I proceeded to go after that kid and quite frankly if I would have gotten a hold of him would have done some damage…I mean the rage that came over me in a split second was incalculable..my son proceeded to fly by me..and I knew then the kid would get hurt….now a neighbor who was there with me, grabbed my son who is a very big guy and said ” dont the kid is a minor, man” if you touch him you’ll go to jail…so the moral of the story is, if not for the grace of the neighbor I am not so sure my son would not be in the same boat as you…and all it takes is split seconds….
http://www.sexcriminals.com/forums/101/17322/168918.html
51 Valerie Parkhurst // Sep 4, 2009 at 4:47 PM
Ahhh leave it to resident sex offenders:
There is actually two ways of looking at things, those who have the good sense to control their inclinations and those who dont.
Obviously your the one with “sex offenders status” so who IS actually calling the kettle black?
52 Rusty Carr // Apr 17, 2010 at 11:53 PM
It is blatantly FALSE that police officers who commit crimes are punished harshly. What happens is their fellow officers close ranks and refuse to speak up against their misbehavior and at times actively aid them is a coverup.
53 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 12:02 AM
Duane you are correct. The DOJ stats do not add up because when the solid blue line closes ranks and protects a criminal with a badge then most of those crimes never become DOJ statistics because the miscreant gets 30 days off with pay (known in other parts of society as a “paid vacation”) and the crime never becomes a statistic anywhere.
54 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 12:06 AM
“Just because they are cops they are still entitled to the same rights as everybody else.”
BUT, they have MORE rights than the rest of us because their buddies on the force will clam up and even help them put together a defense. Anybody on the force who rocks the boat had best take a job elsewhere or he’ll get the Serpico treatment.
55 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 12:22 AM
“I think that most cops are good cops, and do a good job for far too little pay or respect. Most cops play by the rules and have a very difficult job to do, which they do well.”
So right you are there Vidiot, “most” cops are very good folk who do a tough job well and honestly under trying circumstances. However, MOST cops amounts to 50.+++% and I’m here to tell you and anybody else who’ll listen that just is NOT GOOD ENOUGH by one helluva long shot. Even if you raise the figure to 90% its STILL not good enough. We give cops a LOT of power and they frequently misuse that authority to really screw up people’s lives. Just try telling the hiway patrol officer at 3:00AM on a deserted road that you don’t consent to any searches and see how far it gets you!! You’ll be lucky to not end up in the slammer on some trumped up BS charge and if he wants to say you tried to assault him its a felony or maybe he’ll just shoot your ass and claim “officer safety”. I’ll give you the 90% figure and its STILL a bad situation.
56 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 12:31 AM
Andrew, please read my response to Vidiot above.
57 Florida Sport Bikes Blog // Apr 18, 2010 at 12:51 AM
@Rusty Carr They also have a responsibility to the citizens and swore to uphold the laws and constitution. To answer the original question NO it’s not unfair …cops should he held to equal if not higher standards as they are entrusted with a higher authority and responsibility imo.
Florida Sport Bikes Blog´s last blog ..Will Mat Mladin be returning to racing?
58 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 1:19 AM
“Wherever some of you are living, where your police force is ridiculously out of line, must have some seriously corrupt mofos commanding them. The police force in my city is fairly clean AFAIK.”
Andrew, “fairly clean” is a really piss poor standard. “Squeaky clean” is a good standard as is “Clean as a hound’s tooth” but “fairly clean” just is not going to hack it.
59 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 1:27 AM
The so called “cop haters” here are not going to be swayed by one anectdotal story. We’ve known all our lives that from time to time an officer comes along who is a genuine heroe and anybody with a lick of sense would be grateful for those people. However, one hot day does not make a summer and one cold day does not make a winter. Those of us who’ve been paying attention have seen a LOT of cold days.
60 Rusty Carr // Apr 18, 2010 at 1:34 AM
“They hate cops. It’s that simple. They’re no better than the animals who cheer and clap when a police officer is wounder or killed, like the barbarians did in Oakland after the police officers were shot down in cold blood.”
I’m still looking here for a single post that equates to cheering or clapping when a police officer is wounded or killed. Maybe your perception is much clearer than mine, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
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