By Carlos Miller
A 20-year-old college student said a female police officer demanded his camera, then deleted a series of images he had just taken, before handing him back his camera.
The student, who goes by rfosness88 on The Photo Forum, told other members that he was taking pictures of police making arrests outside a bar after a fight between patrons.
The student ended up taking photos of a girl in the backseat of a squad car.
About 15 min. later the same squad car(now without a victim in the back seat) pulls up to me on the sidewalk. The officer asks me what I am doing. I respond, “taking pictures of night life in Whitewater”.
She then tells me that I have to delete the pictures of the girl she arrested. I said ok. Then she asked to see that I deleted it. At this point she didnt give me time to delete them so i was like, “Ya I will delete them in front of you” and i reached my head and camera into the car(neck strap around my head) and deleted the first one.
Then she said “give me your camera” I replied, “are you confiscating it?” she said no I said i’ll show they are deleted, then she was obviously getting irritated, she said “I’ll give it right back”. Not wanting further trouble and not knowing my photographer rights I gave in. She scrolled through my photo’s and deleted a handful of photo’s including some from the first “crime scene”.
The officer ignorantly told him that he had the right to take photos unless the person being arrested did not want their photos taken. That’s about as logical as saying police have the right to arrest people unless the person does not want to be arrested.
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I am a multimedia journalist who has been fighting a lengthy legal battle after having photographed Miami police against their wishes in Feb. 2007. Please help the fight by donating to my Legal Defense Fund in the top left sidebar. And join my Facebook blog network to keep updated on the latest articles.
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30 responses so far ↓
1 genewitch // Feb 22, 2009 at 1:24 PM
you should post up some of the lawyer videos of how to interact with police. i’ll find the two really good ones i’ve seen and email them when i have a free moment.
these stories need to stop existing.
2 Simon Jester // Feb 22, 2009 at 2:05 PM
If it’s removable media, get it to me; I’ll get those pictures back if they haven’t been written over.
Learn how your camera works. More often than not, what is ‘deleted’ is still there.
3 Andrew DeFilippis // Feb 22, 2009 at 3:01 PM
It’s too bad he didn’t know his rights. His pictures are more than likely still on the card, someone needs to tell him how to recover them.
4 Rob // Feb 22, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Like Simon Jester said, the photos are still recoverable as long as the same card hasn’t been reused. There’s plenty of software out there to do that.
5 Scott Chamness // Feb 22, 2009 at 10:40 PM
It should be a requirement for students in college to take a constitution class. We need to know our rights.
Oh, and partially related to that Carlos. I mentioned this site in one of my paper’s for my Individual Rights classes. I told him to check it out, hope you don’t mind.
6 Carlos Miller // Feb 22, 2009 at 10:53 PM
Of course I don’t mind, Scott. Please spread the word.
7 Scott Chamness // Feb 23, 2009 at 12:11 AM
Yeah, for some reason I didn’t really think you’d mind. lol
8 K Skinner // Feb 23, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Recovery software – the next obstacle for police to over come with the citizen journalist!
9 Duane Kerzic // Feb 23, 2009 at 12:45 PM
Yes.. soon all the police will know abut recovery software. So instead of just a demand to delete photos they will take your memory cards, they will damage them or your camera. This is how this stuff will escalate in the future. It’s why standing up to the delete demands is so important now.
-duane
10 Clark // Feb 26, 2009 at 8:37 AM
I’m tempted to glue my card into the camera.
11 Whyvas // Feb 26, 2009 at 1:14 PM
Download Recuva, it’s free and it’ll allow you to recover the files.
12 Jiminy // Feb 26, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Your first mistake was acknowledging anything. If they are not detaining you, you are free to go. If you are free to go, you do not have to answer their questions. If they are detaining you, you do not have to answer their questions. If they were not confiscating your camera, you don’t have to give it to them, or even show it to them. Do not consent to a search.
If it wasn’t you who deleted the photos, you could get a lawyer and accuse the officer of destruction of personal property. The photos you took legally are YOUR property. They do not have the right to delete them.
13 Jim // Feb 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Simply sliding the memory card from the camera into a photo kiosk at a drug store can reveal the “deleted” photos, and allow one to make prints or burn a CD. Even the technologically challenged can “recover” deleted photos this way.
14 jill // Feb 26, 2009 at 8:28 PM
What if it had been your dumb455 getting arrested? I think that cop did that cat a favor. I have had some bad nights and wouldn’t want my pic to appear on a local newspaper.
15 Dysmantle // Feb 27, 2009 at 1:29 AM
not to be rude, but that profile link for the guy who had his photos deleted appears to be the Lab IT Tech.
Maybe he shouldn’t be the lab tech if he doesnt understand the technology in the lab?
W T F? Where is the followup on the recovery efforts.
16 Carlos Miller // Feb 27, 2009 at 1:45 AM
Dysmantle,
That thread has gone off on a completely different direction talking about the morals of underage drinking.
I don’t even keep up with it anymore.
17 Slrman // Mar 26, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Very typical. Police officers routinely violate civil rights of people even when they have not done anything wrong. Add to that the times they commit perjury in court and maybe the wrong people are in prison.
I have had two close relatives that were police chiefs and have trained police officers in three countries. I have never known anyone in the criminal “justice” system that wasn’t a liar. That includes street cops, prosecutors, public “defenders”, judges, and even probation officers.
18 Stan // Dec 23, 2009 at 12:18 AM
I think that this might be related. I was an EMT for a while. Occasionally we would have someone (even press) who would try to take pictures of people while we were pulling them out of cars, transporting them to the ambulance, etc. We had the police remove the cameras from some of these people if it was evident that they were trying to get a good picture of the patient.
This was completely legal. Even the press knew to give up their cameras if they were caught. The film was reviewed, pictures removed IF there was something on it identifying a patient, unless the patient specifically said it was okay, which was unusual, because patients often were not in a place to grant that permission.
Point being that the person being arrested has rights. One of those rights is the right to some degree of privacy. The right to be treated as innocent unless found guilty in a court of law. I would check up on your local and state laws regarding this before I took any action against the officer, who may have been just enforcing the rights of the detained at his or her request.
19 Duane Kerzic // Dec 23, 2009 at 2:12 AM
Stan,
Please cite the rule or law that makes it “completely legal” for EMT’s to order the police to remove camera’s from anyone including press when they are taking a photo of something that’s happening in view of the public.
20 Jay // Dec 23, 2009 at 5:42 AM
Stan,
I second Duane’s request. When in public there is no expectation of privacy. PERIOD. It might be in poor taste to take a photo of someone seriously injured and/or naked and release it, but it is 100% legal if taken in public from a public place.
If the police were complying with your requests to seize cameras, you might have /thought/ it was legal since the police were doing as you asked. It was also probably illegal.
I’m very interested to see the actual cited law.
21 Tom Joad // Dec 23, 2009 at 1:23 PM
I agree with Duane and Jay. There is no expectation of privacy in public. As Jay mentioned, it may be in bad taste, but the government doesn’t get to decide what should be photographed, reported on, etc.
The police removing cameras from reporters, or any citizen for that matter, would be violating their First Amendment rights to free expression. They would also be guilty of theft for deleting any pictures and, violating the Fourth Amendment against seizure of property without due process.
Even if there was some local law that allowed this, it would likely be unconstitutional based on those Bill of Rights violations.
You might also be sued for violating the civil rights of the photographer and could be held personally liable for damages under USC Title 42, Chapter 21, Section 1983:
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.
22 torgeaux // Dec 23, 2009 at 8:59 PM
Stan: It’s been pointed out, but you’re flat wrong. If you can be seen from a public place, you can be photographed. Even in your home, by the way (there are some limits to this, but not what you may think). The journalists who gave up their cameras did so likely to get along, not from a legal obligation. They knew they could face contempt of cop charges, and it was easier to let it go. There is no law that says what you think it does, and if there were, it would be unconstitutional.
23 Duane Kerzic // Dec 24, 2009 at 12:11 AM
The reason I asked him to cite the law was because there are some rules in HIPAA that are fairly wide reaching. I don’t believe however that these overstep that if you are seen in public you can be photographed. We also have no idea where Stan is from. He could be from some little town where the cops aren’t up on this stuff and do things that ‘seem perfectly legal” while they are not.
24 Tom Joad // Dec 24, 2009 at 3:13 AM
HIPAA only applies to “Covered entities” which are medical providers that bill for their services, health plans, or a health care clearing house. So, HIPAA does not apply to citizens on the street. It also does not apply to the police or fire departments unless they bill for providing medical services. Of course they like to use it to limit information, kind of like so many use the Patriot Act as a reason to limit photography. It sounds convincing, but is actually not true.
25 torgeaux // Dec 24, 2009 at 8:01 AM
My take on HIPAA is that a doctor couldn’t take the picture and display it, but it doesn’t cover man on the street photography. Not sure, not my area.
26 Duane // Dec 26, 2009 at 3:53 PM
I didn't think that HIPPA applied. I just wasn't absolutely sure. I've been down the road with trying to help someone and the hospital using HIPPA to prevent that. Of course they didn't offer the suggestion that the person sign something allowing them to give me the information I needed to help the person. I've found many of the privacy things in HIPPA to have set back patient care rather then advance it. Yet we are going down the same path with health care as I'm writing this. There are a bunch of errors in HIPPA that haven't been corrected yet and this time congress is taking another step to insure lots of errors. They aren't even bothering to read the bill before voting on it. So much for open government.
My recent post Feb 1, 2006 Batopilias to San Isidro, Chihuahua
27 Duane // Dec 26, 2009 at 3:53 PM
I didn't think that HIPPA applied. I just wasn't absolutely sure. I've been down the road with trying to help someone and the hospital using HIPPA to prevent that. Of course they didn't offer the suggestion that the person sign something allowing them to give me the information I needed to help the person. I've found many of the privacy things in HIPPA to have set back patient care rather then advance it. Yet we are going down the same path with health care as I'm writing this. There are a bunch of errors in HIPPA that haven't been corrected yet and this time congress is taking another step to insure lots of errors. They aren't even bothering to read the bill before voting on it. So much for open government.
My recent post Feb 1, 2006 Batopilias to San Isidro, Chihuahua
28 E Fizzle // Jan 11, 2010 at 2:00 PM
Just get some photo recovery software and quit whining.
29 Sara // Jan 11, 2010 at 4:42 PM
Duane~
Great photos. I feel like I’ve just been on a vacation to Mexico.
30 Tom // May 18, 2010 at 4:02 AM
I am an avid artist and photographer, i was photographing an oil refinery when i was stopped by the police. they told me that it was “illegal” and i was in “big trouble” they called four squad cars including the county sherif in on three 18yr old college students. we were on public property. i was then ordered to delete all my photos. my car was searched (trunk and all ) our IDs taken and backgrounds checked. we were then told that we were to be placed on a “terrorist watch list” and that we would be throughly investigated by Homeland Security! When we inquired further the police were very turse with us, we were not told what this list was except that they would know “everything about us” down to a “pimple on our heads”. they then said that we would “be contacted by homeland security” but they refused to say how or when. After doing more research and realizing how unreasonable this all is i am now wondering what i should do! plus i’m pissed they were absolutely phenomenal photos! i’m just a kid i feel bullied and scared! the way they threw around the word terrorism was just uncalled for! i am an artist i would never hurt anyone! can you guys help me out there is no way i’m going to take this lying down.
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