Photography is Not a Crime

322 responses so far ↓

• 1 the bulldog // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:03 AM

  they need to lynch the cop in the town square! if not, i hope they torch the place!

• 2 Dale // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:16 AM

  Looking at that clip, I was wondering why people didn’t react. There were enough people on that train to easily overpower those guards. And the other “detainees” - would I just sit there after seeing my buddy get shot like that?

  But it’s the pre-9/11 effect at work. Before 9/11 people just didn’t think something like that was possible, and it took a while to figure out a reaction. By the time it got to Flight 93, people knew what to do.

  Same thing here. If something like that happens again with that many people around, the guards won’t get away.

• 3 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:28 AM

  I think it was just shock. You could hear the reaction of the crowd. They expected him to get roughed up, but I don’t think they expected the cop to pull out a gun and kill him because there really wasn’t a struggle.

  Not even enough to warrant the cop to use a taser gun on him.

• 4 Matt // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:00 AM

  Dale, they were not security guards in the traditional sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police

• 5 Ben // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:17 AM

  Wow… after that I have to completely retract my earlier comments about it being nearly impossible to mistake a Taser for a Sig — the shock on Officer Mehserle’s face speaks volumes here. It really looks like he meant to point some form of pistol-gripped weapon (taser or firearm) and wasn’t fumbling with it when it went off.

  The clarity of this version cuts through much of the uncertainty — his motions were deliberate. He cleanly drew his pistol, pointed it at the suspect’s back, and pulled the trigger. Whether he expected it to be a Taser or not is immaterial in my mind from this point forward. God help that former cop because he’s going to have a tough time finding anyone else who will.

• 6 some guy // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:29 AM

  Yeah, that’s a murder. The victim was face down on the ground, and if I’m on this officer’s jury, I’ll vote to send him to the gas chamber.

• 7 Jim March // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:51 AM

  Yeah, this looks to me like “fatal taser confusion”. BART is going to pay millions on this one. No idea what will happen to the cop.

  First obvious point is that the cop who shot looks at his gun in shock.

  Second: the shooting victim was absolutely handcuffed.

  Negligent homicide. Not 1st degree murder, but still a crime.

• 8 Justin // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:58 AM

  Murder.

• 9 Joe the Gardener // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:02 AM

  He did draw his weapon deliberately.

  But look at his reaction when it fires. He freezes, looks up at his cop buddy, back down to the ground, back up to his cop buddy. Later, his hands at his face.

  This was an unintentional weapons discharge. A crime, a mistake that ended another man’s life. But this was not deliberate murder.

• 10 Ed // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:32 AM

  This so strange. I’m not from USA, so for me these sentences are just too absurd to be true:

  “Mehserle has not been arrested or arraigned for the shooting by any of the several law enforcement agencies now investigating the case.”

  “Federal law enforcement were also reported to be looking into whether Mr. Grant’s civil rights were violated in his killing.”

  You know, crime is scary but this is much scarier.

• 11 Steve Dekorte // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:32 AM

  Based on the the way the cop who made the shot grabbed his head afterward, I’d guess the story about him confusing his handgun for his taser was correct and that it was involuntary manslaughter.

• 12 Ed // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:02 AM

  “This was an unintentional weapons discharge. A crime, a mistake that ended another man’s life. But this was not deliberate murder.”

  NO

  You pull your gun; aim at a person who is face down, handcuffed; pull the trigger (it’s not as easy as on toy guns you know).

  There can not be any talk of anything unintentional.

• 13 That Guy // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:05 AM

  Yet another reason that Cops shouldn’t have TASERS. They use them too often and in unwarranted circumstances. And then you get things like this!

  Sick, just Sick. What has this country become?

  “Wow… after that I have to completely retract my earlier comments about it being nearly impossible to mistake a Taser for a Sig — the shock on Officer Mehserle’s face speaks volumes here. It really looks like he meant to point some form of pistol-gripped weapon (taser or firearm) and wasn’t fumbling with it when it went off.”

• 14 jujube // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:14 AM

  When will the sheople wake up in this country?

• 15 Wanye // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:24 AM

  If you pause the video two seconds after the shooting, you can C-L-E-A-R-L-Y see that Grant’s hands are tied (or handcuffed) behind his back.

• 16 rick // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:31 AM

  @Dale

  It’s generally NOT a good idea for a crowd to rush the police like that. I counted at least 3 cops, each of which have 17 round magazines in their guns and more on their belts… if an angry mob rushes them, you bet your ass they can use lethal force in retaliation.

  So please, record their actions and let the world know, but don’t use more violence against them; don’t give them a reason to hurt you.

• 17 Michael // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:33 AM

  Burn and Loot. Kill any Pig. Fuck That. Avenge Oscar Grant

• 18 Thetruth // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:34 AM

  On what day do you dumb niggers learn you don’t get shot if you are polite to the police?

  Never- because being a dumb nigger means you are never polite.

  You make your own bed niggers, sleep in it bitches.

• 19 Mario // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:11 AM

  Yeah, I saw the look of shock too. This dimwit may have thought he was grabbing his taser. So what?! This is a cold blooded killing that appears totally unjustified. That’s murder.

  We’ll see what actually happens to the cop. Even if — and it’s a big IF — he thought he had his taser in hand, it just goes to show that there are cops out there who are egregiously reckless and not too bright.

  Perhaps they shouldn’t have guns in the first place.

• 20 John Jones // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:27 AM

  Wow, I hope the rioting continues, I only wish the people would stop directing their anger at buildings and cars and instead turn the anger towards the cops themselves who deserve it!

  Jess
  http://www.web-privacy.pro.tc

• 21 some guy2 // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:03 AM

  I see:
  1) shot fired
  2) officer looks at other officer with mouth open *WTF?*
  3) he looks at the gun.
  4) his palm strikes his head in a “God THAT was stupid” gesture.

• 22 Greg // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:23 AM

  I have watched the video many times and came to the conclusion that it was an accident. Before you start I am black so it’s not some kinda of white sympathy thing. Apparently he was using a glock which has a trigger safety that is really easy to fumble and shoot. That being said he should have never pulled the gun out in the first place. Personally I don’t think anyone should get the gas chamber considering the disproportionate amount of minorities(read black) that are given death sentences. That cop will get a slap on the wrist and it will be called an accident.

• 23 d // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:36 AM

  nice ninja videoing. . .I love it.

  nice the train stayed there long enough and pulled away with the recorded evidence before anyone could come and ’secure’ the scene.

  as far as the cops. wow. brutal. and so very wrong.

• 24 Kevin // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:48 AM

  If you kill someone in the process of committing a crime, it is first degree murder regardless. The cop had ZERO cause to draw his taser, so drawing it and firing it at the man was a crime. This is murder plain and simple

• 25 Art // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:51 AM

  This is a highly trained individual. If this involved anybody, say average joe, i would agree with negligent homicide. But we’re talking about a highly trained Law enforcement official. Accidents are not an accepetable excuse!!

• 26 John // Jan 9, 2009 at 9:14 AM

  $20 says that Thetruth is black.

  White people are just as offended by this as you are Truth. If someone doesn’t say what you want them to I guess you can go to an internet site an post hateful things anonymously as a make believe “whitey”.

  Wondering if the IP address for Thetruth is the same as the racist postings from Spokker yesterday.

• 27 leo // Jan 9, 2009 at 9:47 AM

  DALE from first post,

  What do you mean by the time it got to flight 93? Are you saying from the first hijacked plane on 9/11 to flight 93 people understood what to do? Did they play a recording or have a news feed in the plane that planes hit the towers? PLEASE! you are too funny, that plane was complete BS to ease the pain on the american people, so that noone dares think that the planes were not really hijacked. FLight 93 had no idea the other planes hit the towers, not to mention the in flight calls made? YOU CANNOT CALL FROM THE AIRPLANE! IT IS GOING TOO FAST! I TRIED BEFORE! AND AFTER! You are one of the loons who also believes a plane hit the pentagon? You are hilarious my friend, oh sorry you are not my friend.

  And the reason noone did anything here is because they are police and they most likely would have tased anyone that interfered, and the cops would have been right because that is what they are drilled with their whole experience with the police from academy to patrolling.

  And again back to the 9/11 thing, and if pre 9/11 people did not fight back but during 9/11 only the last plane faught back.. that doesnt make sense, no reasonable sense. The Flight 93 was a decoy to show that americans are strong and they will not sit idle while their plane is guided into a fiery inferno, except the other planes had no trouble with that mission, it was saudis that did it, and they were funded by the US government, because at this day and age something really terrible had to happen for us to go to WAR, as civilized as a nation we are, we are savages in our own way, if we are pricked with a needle, we want an entire bus load to suffer even more than we did. ITs called gluttony and we are all guilty of it, dont agree? The nazis that were not in the army were also nazis, even though they did not kill with weapons, they financed Hitlers campaign with tax money and allowing him to speak at rallys. Same thing in america, as sick and twisted as it is, truth hurts. But since the truth would create riots ont he streets the government will not tell us, it would destroy our belief in ourselves and in what America stands for. I guess its a small price to pay for living in the #1 place on earth.

  Think about the other 9/11 planes… hijackers with box cutters? PLEASE! There were more non hijackers on each plane that hijackers, and atleast double, and your telling me only 1 plane fought back? That is laughable, and people accepting what Bush told the country on live tv is also laughable, but then almost every news report in the usa is fabricated for the progression of the direction that the leadership wants the country to go in, and im not talking about the crap that presidents tell us, im talking about what they actually do, and not the lies they tell regarding what they want you to think they do, and did in the past.

  Conspiracy? So is saying anything negative about these police officers, on a different scale, but nonetheless the truth hurts, these cops should all either go to jail for the rest of their lives or be put to death, when you have the duty and the power, especially to PROTECT and SERVE, the inhabitants of this country you should not misuse that enormous trust, and anyone covering it up and anyone that stands next to the perpetrator with the same power and does nothing is guilty of the same crime, the punishment should be 8 fold worse for any police/fire/health/government officials and employees when they commit even the smallest of offenses. Lead by example, not by lies.

  Most wont read this post because it goes against their view of the country, and their belief, some will not read it because they are guilty of crimes that they do not have to answer for. Bush is guilty of the same, he was responsible for the deaths of thousands of americans, but like Hitler… his own people would never have prosecuted him, because the majority either agrees/follows/or fears him.

  Now im going to go poop.

• 28 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 10:00 AM

  John,

  thetruth’s IP address is from Virginia.

  Spokker’s IP address is from California.

  Two different people.

• 29 ed from ga // Jan 9, 2009 at 10:59 AM

  @Greg

  A Glock doesn’t have a safety.

  @all

  You do a great job of not feeding the troll. Thanks for that.

• 30 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 11:02 AM

  Ed from Ga,

  It was a Sig Sauer.

  http://carlosmiller.com/2009/01/07/could-a-taser-gun-be-so-easily-confused-for-a-firearm/

  I agree about ignoring the troll.

• 31 Tom // Jan 9, 2009 at 11:22 AM

  DALE:
  Since the beginning of the firearm, one only needs to shoot one in the air to have everyone stop, guffaw, shut up, and sit tight. Blantantly shooting someone in the back? Yeah, that’ll get people stunned enough to no know what to do, especially if it’s your friend or loved one and you realize he/she is about to die. The detained guy with the hat realized, “Whoa, this guy just got shot inches away from me.” woke up and got up.

  Yes, there was a moment (seconds after the shooting) that the crowd could have rushed the cops but 1. More innocent people would have been killed and 2. both phones that gathered evidence may have been confiscated and/or lost/destroyed in the havoc.

  KEVIN:
  Very good point with “If you kill someone in the process of committing a crime, it is first degree murder regardless. The cop had ZERO cause to draw his taser, so drawing it and firing it at the man was a crime.”

• 32 Tom // Jan 9, 2009 at 11:28 AM

  God, this higher quality version is incredible. The major news networks need this NOW!

  Yes, those Bart train doors closed at just the right moment? Does anyone know if Bart doors are automatic or what? People were definitely ready to rush off that train. I can’t imagine the frustration, anger, and sadness in those train cars as they pulled away.

• 33 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 11:35 AM

  Tom,

  You can not only hear but you can fear the anger in that train car as the door closes.

  The realization that they had just witnessed a murder is overtaking them at that precise moment.

  And I do wonder about the car doors shutting because under normal circumstances, those doors would have been closed long before and the train would have kept moving.

  But in that case, the train was stalled until after the gun went off. And suddenly, the trains came to life.

• 34 Colleen // Jan 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM

  murder.

• 35 Frank // Jan 9, 2009 at 12:23 PM

  Did the officer panic and draw his taser to speed up the cuffing, move the arrestees away from the hostile crowd? Was his taser behind the holster or was it on his left side?
  Police use tasers so they don’t have to use batons, which can cause severe injuries to bones. They had to use batons in the ’80’s because they were no longer allowed to use carotid sleeper holds that render the arrestee unconscious for about 10-15 seconds. These worked very well for officers and combative/resisting persons in that there was, in the vast majority of cases, no injury caused afterward. It is quick, effective and doesn’t injure. Tasers don’t always work. Like the carotid sleeper (when applied too long), taser deaths occur rarely. But if lawsuits prevent the use of tasers, we;re right back to batons and crushing bone injuries. All this can be prevented if arrestees follow the officers directions carefully, officers get good and frequent training, and officers face disciplinary action and prosecution when they violate the law or department regulations.

• 36 Jerry // Jan 9, 2009 at 12:53 PM

  I agree that EVERYONE in that station should have overpowered those cops! Then do a citixens arrest right there! WHEN THE PEOPLE DECIDE TO LEAD, THE LEADERS WILL BE FORCED TO FOLLOW!!!

• 37 steve // Jan 9, 2009 at 12:58 PM

  To me it looks like the officer was reaching for his taser rather than his pistol…and in think it was his taser pulled the trigger… This would all be a mute point if the people would comply with the officer’s request… This is a dangerous neighborhood and many other people have been shoot or had harm done to them..The police go in to these situation, wondering if an “innocent bystander” doesn’t come up behind then and shoot them.. This of course doesn’t excuse the fact that the officer made a mistake but put your self in their shoes…

• 38 global74 // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:05 PM

  it was murder plain and simple. All the excuses that some of you folks are making “negligent homicide”, meant to grab his taser, are pretty silly when you take into account

  1. This police officer is paid a salary and trained by the city to protect the people.
  2. The victim is subdued, on the ground and is not threat to the officer or others
  3. The grip of a taser or mace feels completely different from a GUN

  This cop killed a man. If not for the video, alot of yall would be making excuses giving the cop the benefit of the doubt. “well we dont know exactly what happened”
  “the victim could have made suspicious movements”
  Please stop making excuses for this atrocity. If we dont hold this cop accountable for this crime, there will be many others

• 39 Tim // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:11 PM

  Murder in the 1st Degree - it is time to dismantle our corrupt police state and the economic machine which supports it.

• 40 Will // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:19 PM

  That’s a wanton execution.

• 41 Kurt // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:19 PM

  WTF is up with that couple right by the black dude? They’re fucking oblivious to what the fuck is going on around them. I hate Americans like them.

• 42 Brazen Bull (Google it) // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:39 PM

  Wow.

  Just Wow.
  I lived in the Bay Area for several years. The train goes under the Bay and comes up on the Oakland side. Anyone who reads this who has been on that train will understand the following.
  What happened was a series of events that just lead to this horrendous killing. Read on VanityFair.com the account of the head on collision in brazil between two jets, one thing stuck with me in that article.
  It was as if the Devil had his hand in things.
  When you ride the BART from San Fran to Oakland it occurs to you–in the black tunnel beneath the Bay–that you are in one of the most earthquake prone parts of the world. What if the Big One hits–what kind of death would this be like, trapped in a tube–
  –also, and I say this with all respect to my brothers, the train contains many Oakland brothers, people most of you reading this would cross the other side of the street to avoid.
  It was New years and even on normal days you have to stand on the BART, so imagine being stuffed into the cars, everyone shouting, the smell of fear and booze and unwashed ass–everyone was tense.
  And that is why the fight happened.
  Earlier that night the BART cops were tense, there had been two weapons confiscated previously. Now try to enter the mind of Mehserle, baby born a few days ago, scared out of his mind, way out of his element, the people he deals with on a daily basis treat him as a rent a cop, spit at his feat, display No Fear when he draws his weapon.
  The life of an inner city cop, compounded with the view that he is a Train Guard.
  He just wants to go home and see his kid. So do all the cops, they don’t know who or what will come out of that tunnel, all they know is that there is a fight (maybe gang related) their already have been two weapons found, it was 2am and they all were ready for the worse.
  The Devil shows his hand.
  If you read enough reports, from SFgate you will find an interesting fact, there were not enough Tasers that night, cops going off shift would pass them to the next shift but not all of the cops had Tasers. Maybe Mehserle worked a double–he was a new father, maybe he was trying to make some extra money–maybe he was used to carrying a taser, we don’t know anything yet. . .
  It is clear to me from his reaction after the shot that he thought he was using a taser. Maybe you think this was wrong–maybe it was–maybe it would caused a riot.
  But you are not a cop.
  Even if you are a cop, few of you are cops in inner cities.
  A pistol gripped taser can feel a lot like a gun, weather it be a Sig Sauer or a Glock which weigh a lot less then you may think.
  I could have been Grant. I am biracial which means in this country I am black. I grew up in Harbor City, next to Lomita and Wllmington and a stone’s throw from Compton. In 1992 I wa watching the riots on T.V when a dark cloud caused a shadow in my room, out the window a wharehouse on 256st was burned. I drove nice car and was pulled over 19 times by the LAPD. I hated the pigs, they searched my car, threw my shit on the street made me sit on the curb. They asked how a “kid like me” could afford a car like mine. I lived with my Grandparents and had a guilty Mom.
  But I digress..
  I hated the cops, hated the way they treated me. A cop had me on the curb and when he didn’t find anything he told me that my people were lucky, lucky we were brought here to work, we could have ended up back in Africa as lion food.
  I cried myself to sleep that night. Pathetic. Yes. But when all your power is taken, when you feel like the cum of the earth, self pity is a safe harbor.
  But my cousin is now LAPD.
  A cousin who I grew up with like a brother when I moved to LA and with my Grandparents. And some of the things he has told, things that I will always keep between us has changed my point of view. I can’t help to think what if it had been him who pulled that trigger.
  If an officer pulled a gun on you, or ordered you out of the car, you would comply. But in the inner city, if a cop pulls a gun on you, maybe that was the fourth person who did that that afternoon and the cop was less likely to shoot than Le-Lo on 35st. Listen to the audio, you can feel the tenor of the crowd, the animosity, the sense that something. . .something was going to happen.
  That is why there is so much video.
  Bit nobody, from the suspects, to the crowd, to
  Mehserle expected to watch someone get shot.
  But that night, in Fruitville, the Devil was in the details.

• 43 Ari // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:42 PM

  Honestly, that cop deserves to have his badge and gun taken and burned. Then for the family to file a wrongful death suite. What I saw isn’t a legal crime, it’s a crime of humanity to be sure but not a legal crime of this society. It’s a damn shame. Why that policeman did not have his weapon holstered is beyond me. You never point a barrel at anything unless you’re willing to put a friggin hole in it. This scene was avoidable. It’s that officer’s fault. Pure, plain and simple. His burden/punishment is that he has to live with what HE did for the rest of his life.

• 44 Jeff // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:45 PM

  Ok the bald cop was kneeling on the victims head while the other cop shot him in the back. I have held both a pistol and a taser…it would be pretty hard to mistake the two…especially cause you keep them on opposite sides of your hip. The shooter should serve 25 yrs…the senior officer in charge should also be up on charges for not handeling the situation in a humane manner. Even after the guys is shot…they then drag him around like it was ok.

• 45 Chris // Jan 9, 2009 at 1:52 PM

  the MOST fucked up part is not that shooting, it’s the way the officer quit the force and has avoided all questioning.

  pistol, taser, accident or murder, he was very much in the wrong, and justice needs to be done.

  i’m not surprised there’s rioting, i just hope next time there’s a situation like this, all the people on the train don’t charge the arresting officers.

  the public outnumber the police, vastly.

• 46 Mark // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:05 PM

  Kurt? Just because they weren’t spluttering impotently and kicking at the door that makes them oblivious? How can you even be certain they’re American? What a completely arbitrary and unnecessary provocation (perhaps you’re the American). All people react to shock in different ways.

• 47 Jim // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:06 PM

  All you who think the cops should’ve been rushed are stupid and would probably be behind the crowd egging them on. Cowards. And leo, you’re a fucking idiot.

• 48 patrick // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:08 PM

  @Brazen Bull

  You’re an idiot. You’re gonna sit there and try to justify this? I dont care how bad of a day the cops had before this, it does not justify mistaking your weapon for another weapon or SHOOTING A FUCKING HUMAN BEING!!!

  It is the Police’s job to be careful. To server and PROTECT.

  Im disgusted.

• 49 Jim // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:12 PM

  Sorry for the family, but he would still be alive had he not been rowdy with the rest of his friends.

• 50 leo // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:16 PM

  that cop deserves life in prison, i dont care if it was an accident, you do not give guns to people and not severely penalize them when they “screw up” or make a “mistake” either way it took a life, the cop should have been cuffed on the spot by his own peers and taken to criminal court.

  THIS INCIDENT, NOT ACCIDENT, SHOWS HOW THE “SYSTEM” TAKES CARE OF ISSUES WITHIN ITSELF, IT JUST DOES NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING, IF SOMETHING IS DONE IT WILL SET A PRECEDENT THAT NOONE WANTS TO BE APPLIED TO THEMSELVES, THUS ALL CASES THAT INVOLVE POLICE/FIRE/MEDICAL/GOVERNMENTAL PERSONNEL AND OFFICIALS THAT COMMIT CRIMES AGAINST CIVILIANS OR THEIR PEERS ARE LEFT UN PUNISHED, AND IF PUNISHED THEN VERY LIGHTLY. BEING FIRED FROM YOUR JOB IS NOT A PUNISHMENT FOR THIS OFFICER, nor is quitting. He deserves to be in jail for the rest of his life, or even put to death to send a message to past, present, and future generations. THAT NOTHING SHOULD AND WILL BE TOLERATED BESIDES FOLLOWING THE LAW, AND THIS OFFICER, AS SO MANY BEFORE HIM… be it tasering/beating/physically harming a suspect/civilian/citizen..etc … whatever it may be.. they should be put to a higher standard than someone that does not work for the government. The lax in punishment creates a safe haven for abuse on such a high level that truly only egotistical and people who want to control others and get a personal HIGH from it are given a badge and the ability to do whatever they want, ill kill that fucker for spitting in my face, and i know my fellow officers will cover it up.. whats the worst that will happen? I lose my badge? AWWW HOW SAD FOR ME! THat is actually what they think, i know this, i have many cop friends in several states who feel this way, and KNOW THAT THEY WOULD BE PROTECTED BY THEIR PEERS, in the department and above. ITS SICK… and here the world gets a glimpse of how it all goes down, even with VIDEO EVIDENCE, nothing serious happened and will happen to that murderer.

  way to uphold the law

• 51 leo // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:19 PM

  jim,

  so rowdy people are allowed to be shot? ever heard of the law?

  THERE IS NO CASE IN WHICH AN OFFICER CAN SHOOT A MAN IN THE BACK or a woman IN THE SITUATION SHOWN BY THE VIDEO!

  You jim, are a moron, and people like you are the ones who abuse their power as police officers. IM THE LAW AND IF THEY DONT LISTEN TO ME, OR ARE DISRESPECTFUL I WILL TEACH THEM A LESSON. Those people do not deserve to have a badge, now a weapon in their hands.

  I hope it is you next incident we hear about jimmy.

• 52 Mike // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:28 PM

  I am a Phoenix Police Officer. I have been on the force for about 15 years now.

  People like these BART police officers disgust me.

  There is a distance difference in the weight and feeling from the tazer compared to a gun.

  They designed them this way.

  Some cops are murders, some obey the law.

• 53 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 2:44 PM

  Hey Mike,

  I used to cover the Phoenix Police Department when I was a reporter at the Arizona Republic a few years ago.

  Met a lot of good guys there. A few not so good.

  Thanks for your comment.

• 54 jrfunkenstein // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:04 PM

  ‘Looking at that clip, I was wondering why people didn’t react. There were enough people on that train to easily overpower those guards. And the other “detainees” - would I just sit there after seeing my buddy get shot like that?’

  You’ve got to be kidding; you just witness someone get murdered by a trigger happy gun toting poorly trained glorified security guard, and you wonder why the horrified people on the train didn’t rush the 4 armed thugs that commit the murder?

  I suppose you didn’t notice how quickly events unfolded, or how fast the train doors shut after the shooting.

  Anyone else who thinks they would have been a hero have probably never seen the police shoot an unarmed and handcuffed kid in the back in front of hundreds of witnesses.

• 55 Jeff // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:04 PM

  Fuck Leo, Fuck Mark, Fuck Kurt Fuck Steve and fuck anyone else who takes the trigger happy peice of shit rookie ass cops side. He quit the force because he’s a bitch and cant face what HE DID. People have the nerve to try to back him up…..would you back him up if it was a young girl who was shot?….NOPE!! Cops F-N suck all over the world…and they’re only getting worse….soon cops are gonna have to shoot first and ask questions later..cause people will be aiming at them. (DEXTER)

• 56 Jeff // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:06 PM

  Ooops sorry Leo…you’re cool….I’m Out!!

• 57 Dan // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:10 PM

  that is Evil.

  that IS Evil.

• 58 Matt Dudley // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:16 PM

  Someone should take justice into their own hands and find that man and kill him! America is going down the crapper so you might as well join in the chaos….

• 59 jrfunkenstein // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:20 PM

  ‘Sorry for the family, but he would still be alive had he not been rowdy with the rest of his friends.’

  That’s a pretty good reason to be publicly executed for being a minority.

  NONE of those kids were resisting a damn thing, and Grant was shot in the back while he was face down and handcuffed with another BART cop kneeling on his neck.

  How can anyone justify his even being tasered in that situation, much less being murdered by someone poorly trained to handle a situation, but is given lethal force to do so?

  The rioting is appalling but understandable when this video is being censored by the MSM.

  Disgusting.

• 60 Does it matter? // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:23 PM

  A trained cop can easily see the difference between a tazer with a yellow tip and a completely black glock. There was no threat, the guy was handcuffed, thus no adrenaline to impair his judgement. To me this was intentional.. the slap on the head seems to me to be more of a delayed reaction when he realized the amount of onlookers and the stupidity of his move. Not an oh no moment.. I’m not an American, so I really don’t care… (other than that my thoughts go out to the guy’s [who was shot] family and friends) - it just angers me to see that people permit this sort of behavior from the people who are put in charge to protect them.

  It is not the first time cops in the States go ballistic; I was on holiday in LA a while back where six cops jumped a black guy who was not resisting arrest.. one of the cops beat the guy’s head to the ground so badly that there was a blood pool where his head had been. I saw it after they had dragged him away.

• 61 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:32 PM

  If people would have rushed the cops, as some people suggest, there would have been more people dead. Several more.

  The best response was what has been done. To record the actions and distribute the videos worldwide to show the world what took place.

  The truth is the ultimate weapon.

• 62 BuddhaBro // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:36 PM

  All I see here are angry letters, trying to pass the blame onto someone else with a lot of finger pointing. Each one of us should look ourselves in the mirror and ask “Who The Fuck Am I”. We are all to blame! Society is not about an individual, we are all inter connected. And until people begin to understand that; then it will be a long time before things will begin to change. We don’t know what was going on in any those peoples lives leading up to that moment and nor will we ever. If everyone took responsibility for their own thoughts and actions would we even need cops? Take a good look at yourself and how you perceive and treat others. Then maybe you will understand why there is so much fear and hate in our lives. Hate only generates more hate. Take responsibility for you own life for a change! Then, maybe you can begin to help others instead being the first one to criticize their actions.

• 63 leo // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM

  Mike:

  you are god amongst men.

  Keep up the good work, i hope you practice what you preach, i hope there are more like you.

  But do you agree this cop should be jailed for life? Worse? Or what sort of punishment? And what will that punishment mean for future and current officers who commit such crimes?

• 64 leo // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:45 PM

  Carlos,

  but the truth means nothing in the physical world. If i know the truth, but the perpetrator walks free… is that really a difference than noone even knowing that the incident happened?

  Its like people ignoring that what hit the pentagon was not a plane. They feel they know the truth, but what is the truth? The truth in this situation might be that the cop has done that many times except this time he did not have the benefit of saying the guy had a gun pointed at him, and having his peers back him up, with a gun with the serial filed off being found on the scene.

  The truth is nothing without consequence.

• 65 jrfunkenstein // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:52 PM

  ‘Take responsibility for you own life for a change! Then, maybe you can begin to help others instead being the first one to criticize their actions.’

  That’s precisely what most rational posters are asking for; for the City of Oakland, the BART authorities and that officer, to take responsibility for his actions.

  Maybe you haven’t noticed, but that isn’t happening.

  Watch the video again and tell me there’s ANY justification for that kid getting shot with ANY kind of firearm.

• 66 jrfunkenstein // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:59 PM

  The very end of the video is the most telling; even after realizing Grant has been shot at point blank range, the officers continue to search him without consideration for the fact that he’s now bleeding to death, going so far as to drag him around by his still handcuffed arms.

  How can anyone be defending this?

• 67 BuddhaBro // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:00 PM

  This was a life changing experience for all directly or indirectly involved. Just look at the notes on this website and the impact that this event has made. A young man lost his life, a mother lost her son, and now another young man must live with this memory for the rest of his and his families’ life. We are all so quick to blame and find fault and seek retribution. Why can’t we change and try to make a difference instead of adding to the horror. We all have choices in the way we live our lives and we all need to take responsibility for our choices. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

• 68 jnm // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM

  I cannot agree with Thetruth more.

  Surely most of you have heard of the “don’t tase me bro” incident?

  Why are police so jumpy, so quick to draw? Because there ARE violent subjects who endanger the lives of the protectors. Now, I’m not saying all police are good; there are surely many corrupt ones. But if you are stopped or detained by the police, you had better shut your ass up and cooperate, politely, quietly, and efficiently. If that guy DID have a weapon on him, he SHOULD have mentioned it. Notice the guy to the left? His hands up in the air, no quick or threatening movements. What else are they supposed to think if you struggle and disobey?

  This disparity between the enforcers and those being policed has not grown overnight. Raging against “pigs” and rioting against…who the hell knows, will never, EVER help. In the end, we all want that happy ending, to go home to our brothers, mothers, and children.

  Police are given weapons to protect the innocent. Granted, that word has been stretched further than a two-bit whore during Mardi Gras. The officer that discharged his weapon will be devastated for life. And that’s why he should be back on the job. It was an accident. Was it right? No. Was it good? Hell no. But it did happen. Jail for the man won’t do any good. It won’t do him good, or the city good. Several hunded hours of community service would. You can bet he’d learn from that, too. And be that much better because of it.

• 69 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:19 PM

  JNM,

  Community hours? That’s what I got for photographing cops against their wishes. Community hours.

  And you say this guy deserves the same for shooting and killing an unarmed man who was already handcuffed?

  And only because he is a cop?

• 70 bill // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:38 PM

  I’m sorry, I’m all for rioting when the issue is police brutality (living in Athens, where a boy was shot dead by police a month ago for no reason whatsoever) but “rush the police?” I hope us adults can agree that this is probably the stupidest thing you can do to an armed, bordering-on-retardation, panic-stricken police officer.

  There is no need for that in terms of serving justice. The footage will suffice, since you need it as evidence.

  I repeat: rushing the police = bad idea!!!!

• 71 elZaphod // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

  Taser confusion my ass. Cops use those things as casually as handcuffs now. If you are so scared of every person you interact with on the beat, you’re a pussy that shouldn’t be a cop. He has no excuse and I hope the jury finds the same.

  Of course there’s always the possibility Officer Friendly failed to take his anti-retarded pills that morning.

• 72 Brazen Bull // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM

  I think some might not understand what I was trying to say. I do not think the officer intended to kill Oscar, I think he mistook his Sig for a tazer. The Sig is a light firearm. But some reports say it is 3 times as heavy as the tazer that the BART cops use.
  If you are driving and see a person in the middle of the street and slam on the pedal and run them over you are a murderer, this is tantamount to what some of you think happened.
  If you are driving and swat a bee from your leg and kill a bicyclist you may be guilty of manslaughter…maybe not. This is a stance that many defenders of whatever cops do might take.
  This is not my stance.
  Mehserle is like the drunk who downs 9 beers in an hour with a few shots, hops in his car and wipes out a family.
  He is guilty of killing someone due to his abhorrent lack of judgment and possible borderline level of retardation. He should serve time, not only for what he did but as a lesson to all officers that lack of training or intelligence, or iron nerves is no excuse for shooting someone in the back . . .and then hand cuffing him.
  Remember folks, he was not handcuffed until after he was shot which points to this cop just being a retard, a retard with the power to kill, but a retard nonetheless.

• 73 No Justice will be served! )-: // Jan 9, 2009 at 4:58 PM

  Sorry to the fam…. First of all whats so sad about this situation is that its happening more and more EVERYDAY! and plz if any of ya’ll know any cop/lawenforcer that has been prosectuted for THEIR crime.. let me know. guarentee if he had not quit he would get suspension with pay like the rest, a vacation. while families are torn apart by these crimes committed to them by the “LAW” I guess when we see colored officers shooting unarmed white people then we’ll c justice, hell they’ll probably get death penatly. Its very clear the cops didnt give a damn he was shot, after the fact.. video shows right then they were throwing him around on the floor after the shooting. all that was missing was a burning cross. And to THE TRUTH. how bout u go across the train tracks and tell the crowd over there ur point of view… oh thats right your a COWARD, thats right. and to all those who live in candyland wake the fuck up, cops r crook’d jus like the lawyers and judges that set them free. stop making excuses for these bitches that r clearly killing humans… whether black, yellow, red, white, whatever, ur still in denial after witnessing it with ur own two eyes…. wow

• 74 someone // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:01 PM

  Tasers are typically placed on the opposite side of the belt than the firearm. this is so the LEO can draw the taser with his strong hand (the hand he shoots with). the LEO belt is designed for muscle memory meaning that if you are in a heated situation you can easily select the appropriate “Use of force” weapon without having to search or fumble around. the common x26 taser has a vastly different weight and feel than a standard firearm be it sig sauer or other. The taser requires you to draw the weapon in a specific way and flip a switch to turn it on, you cant simply draw and fire, the firearm has no switch, it has a trigger pull of several pounds along with a secure holster that requires specific and deliberate movements to draw the weapon out. And if it does have a mechanical safety device the officer would have been trained on out to remove the safety as he was drawing the weapon so that when he archived his “sight picture” he would be ready to fire. there too many actions involve for a slip up. depending on the training of BART officers its hard to believe that any officer that completed the mandatory training could mistake the firearm for a taser and discharge it in the movements in the video.

• 75 Annie // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:09 PM

  After Mehserle shoots him, and rubs his head looking “confused and shocked”;

  It doesn’t look to me like Mehserle regretted shooting Grant, just that he regretted doing so with such a large audience.

  & EVEN IF, he meant to draw his taser. He was still trying to deliberately harm someone that was already detained and incapable of going anywhere.

  this was a product of the cops rage in the situation. He was trying to “get back” at Grant for resisting.

  It’s IMMORAL, and this monster should rot in prison.

• 76 Mg // Jan 9, 2009 at 5:14 PM

  Just to get the story straight:
  1. Kids were detained for something right? The issue was overlooked. Was it a fight, or was it police harassment that got them benched to begin with? I’m not siding with anybody, but the kids shouldn’t have been dicking around to begin with to receive a knee in the back, pinned to floor.

  2. Whether the cop shot the kid by mistake or by purpose, HE WILL BE TRIED FOR A CRIME. We can trust the justice system to follow through on that. Whether he will be sentenced to death or carry out imprisonment for life is a mute point, HE IS DONE.

  My question to community is, what are you rioting/fighting for now? Are you asking for the police to turn over guns? What resolution is the community seeking? Once this ex-cop gets tried, and sentenced, what’s next?

  I feel the community has a lot of tension and hate against against the authorities who provide “protection” but the message is unclear about what is being sought. The crime is not racially motivated but the news media will drop hints to insinuate a racial response.

  JNM asked a good question. What if the shooter wasn’t a cop? Will the same incident cause the same response? Probably not. What if the cop was a black officer? Will riots have taken place? Would the outcome differ and in what way?

  This entire incident is very unfortunate and has invoked a huge emotional response. We, the people, need to be logical about our response. We can just blindly fire off hateful responses without adequate reason. If we did, we’re not better that those rioting in the streets trying to prove point by setting fires.

• 77 Jhamal White // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:03 PM

  Oscar was no angel by a long shot. He was on the path of a career criminal. Don’t you think this was his destiny and had it coming?

• 78 Psynaut // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:09 PM

  The cop made a mistake. Unfortunately for him, he is going to pay the price for all the abuse of power perpetrated on freedom in America in the last 8-years.

  Even though I can see that this is a mistake and can feel sorry for the guy and his family, who are probably suffering terribly from this mistake, my pent up outrage and anger over the rampant ratcheting up of police brutality and abuse of power under the Bush administration makes another part of me want to see him and all like him lynched.

• 79 Ponton // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:12 PM

  JNM,
  Its true that in this day and age people should be aware that even being seen as resisting arrest can get you shot. Especially if you ain’t white and ain’t that always been the case?

  However, simply because this is the reality of the situation in America today, does not mean it is right, good, moral, acceptable, constitutional, lawful or tolerable to any individual or society itself. this is not a liberal airy fairy statement or a republican militias and guns are the only way statement. It is not tolerable because as social animals it damages our sense of belonging in the group. Anytime this happens it is bad news.

  I think you are perhaps living in a world of “should be” rather than a world of “what is.”

  Lets look at what is. People are so outraged and afraid of their own police force that they take to the streets and mob up. People mob up for a reason. High emotion, a sense of alienation, disrespect and fear of a certain aspect of society (in this case law enforcement) or the perception that critical societal controls or contracts have been broken or violated.

  Add this fear and high emotion to the burden of stress we all carry these days, especially if we live in poor neighborhoods. Add the fact that it happened to a person of a historically persecuted race– its not suprising at all these riots happened.

  People are social animals and we must operate in groups. Nowadays we dont have regular groups anymore, we have super groups or uber groups. Groups where there are very many different and sometimes opposing viewpoints and goals. Also, we dont just belong to one group anymore (Me Big Thog’s clan) but we might belong to a lot of different groups, all who hold some or most or not much of our loyalty.
  The person’s uber-group is the main group of people who they identify as belonging to. This sense of belonging could be any or all of these: belonging in one’s family, one’s group of friends, to the neighborhood, a highschool sports team, the city, as an american, or even as a law-abiding citizen or as a christian.

  When people percieve that an aspect (in this case law enforcement) of society has violated a social contract (dont murder the public) that is critical for the functioning of said society, people abandon their front-of-the-brain, well thought loyalties to the uber-group.
  (And I dont mean people decide to riot in an analytical, front-of-the-brain way. ITs the sub-concsious, angry, paranoid lizard-brain kind of way)

  When a shocking break in the percieved societal contract happens, people who riot are unconsiously replacing the somewhat etheral sense of belonging in the uber-group with a more real, tangible, and ultimately more fulfilling belonging to a “tribe.” (usally whatever mob of people they happen to be around at the time. )

  These things are not thought out, not planned, they are momentary de-volutions in our tenuous grip on our sense of belonging to such a massive, complicated uber-group like America.

  Basically riots happen because your “lizard brain” would *much much much* prefer you to be following the biggest, loudest, fightin’est male, in a group of 150 people or less, and smashing anything thats too threatening, too shiny or too confusing. A severe enough shock (seeing a man get killed, feelings of intense persecution) and the lizard brain takes over.

  The thing is, what is going to happen to people if the guy who started this shitstorm… mistake, accident, murder or no– gets his job back or a slap on the wrist?
  I dont mean just the rioters but everyone in the city and all of America. How would they see that action in context with the social contracts we all live under?

  A MAN DIED.

  mistake or not, there is nothing more dangerous than assuming that the social contract between the police force and the public can be stretched and twisted forever. The riots mean there is already a large public perception that the social contract is broken. Reconciliation must be made, or the social contract will fracture.
  Re-instituting the man or slapping him on the wrist will only confirm the negative perception further causing more and more of these incidents.

  Thats how I see it.
  (not american or black)

• 80 Prentiss // Jan 9, 2009 at 6:54 PM

  Action 1 - stand up
  Action 2 - pull out gun
  Action 3 - aim gun
  Action 4 - pull trigger
  Action 5 - look around in shame
  Conclusion - MURDER!!!!!!!
  Recommendation - DEATH PENALTY

• 81 its just bad // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:00 PM

  glock does have a safty, just not much of one. it is a 2 stage trigger with what is called a “lawyers trigger” (meaning it takes a stiff 3 to 4 lb of pressure to set one off) no different than the smith and wesson sigma series. these guns dont fire themselves. it is the sole responsibility of the gun handler to control the weapon!! in any case it is sad when anyone looses their life.

• 82 Cops wife // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:00 PM

  I don’t think people have any right to post videos of this stuff on the internet. I don’t see that its anyones business except the officers about what went on. As a proud police wife I know for a fact that it was more than likely not on purpose that he grabbed the gun he was more than likely reaching for his taser. You people are sick that sat and videoed this you should really get a life and that is really sick that you posted it on line. Oh and another thing I get so sick of hearing people sit and bash cops and say nothing but crap about them, but then turn around and when they are in trouble cops are the first people they call so think about it next time that you talk bad about a cop think about who is going to be there when you need help.

• 83 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:05 PM

  Sorry about the comments being held like this but I have cached this page because it’s the only way to keep it from crashing the server.

• 84 Carlos Miller // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:31 PM

  But I am back at my computer now, so I can refresh the page every few minutes. It’s just that comments are not instantly appearing as they normally do.

  This post has generated an extremely high amount of traffic and I am using WP Super Cache, which has proven to be very effective in keeping the server from crashing although there were some very shaky moments today.

• 85 Ken // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:45 PM

  Cops wife:

  You are TRULY DELUSIONAL! In your world, all policemen are like Andy Taylor and Barney Fife! YES, we want the police there when we need them…that IS their duty! It is also their duty to protect ALL PERSONS and that includes innocent bystanders AS WELL AS the person(s) they are taking into custody. Wearing a badge and carrying a gun is a SACRED TRUST that society has bestowed on these individuals. When that trust is broken, civilized society starts to fall apart.

  Mike (policeman from Phoenix):

  It’s sad that your profession has to be tainted by individuals like Mehserle. There just has got to be a way of training police officers better and weeding out the bad apples. Clearly, this guy Mehserle should never have been given a gun. I just wonder what his record is/was like. Any thoughts about a 27 year old with only 2 years on the force? I believe he’s from semi-rural Napa, but don’t know much more about the guy.

• 86 Chrismpls // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:54 PM

  That cop didnt even have a tazer on him. Their wasn’t enough of them(tazer) to go around to all the
  law enforcement that was working that night.
  So the hole BS of him mistaking his gun for a tazer.
  I was a law enforcement student till 2 years ago. Then I found that cops are corrupt and the biggest gang out there.
  Carry cameras if they are on the clock you can tape them. They are employees of the people. If the government doesnt work for its citizens we have the right to start anew.

• 87 Ivan J // Jan 9, 2009 at 8:08 PM

  In my view, individuals such as Johannes Mehserle don’t necessarily plot malevolently against citizens such as this victim. I have analysed this mindset for years and I am convinced that Mehserle and many of his peers across the country honestly do not regard shooting a handcuffed minority in the back as a crime. In following many stories such as this throughout the years, I have observed a marked inability in working and middle-class white