longbeachcop
Photo by Thomas Hawk
Update: The Long Beach Harbor Patrol responds to Thomas Hawk’s complaint. In essence, they want photographers to check into their station before taking photos. Uh huh. Oh yeah, they also mention 9/11.
By Carlos Miller
A Long Beach Harbor Patrol officer told two photographers they needed a permit to photograph industrial plants, even though they were standing on a public sidewalk.
Now one of the photographers has contacted the LBHP demanding an inquiry into the incident.
And he has actually received a response.
The photographers are Thomas Hawk and David Sommars, both based in California. Hawk, one of the most vocal critics regarding photographer rights abuses, has been blogging about these incidents for years, including my arrest in Feb. 2007.
Last week, he traveled from San Francisco to Los Angeles and joined Sommars for some long-exposure photography of the industrial plants at Long Beach Harbor.
Now I know many people will automatically say that photographing industrial plants should be banned because of terrorism or whatever. But it hasn’t been banned. And it doesn’t look like it will be banned anytime soon.
In fact, Los Angeles officials are more concerned about protecting celebrities from photographers than they are about protecting industrial plants from photographers, so there is no reason for these cops who patrol these plants to think otherwise.
This is how Hawk described the conversation with the officers:
Long Beach Harbor Patrol Officer: “I’m going to have to ask you guys to leave.”
Us: “But, why, were simply taking art photographs.”
Long Beach Harbor Patrol Officer: “You’re not allowed to photograph these plants.”
Us: “But we’re on a public sidewalk. What law doesn’t allow us to photograph here?”
Long Beach Harbor Patrol Officer: “You’ll need to come back tomorrow and get a permit if you want to shoot in the Harbor.”
Me: “I’m only down in Long Beach for tonight and won’t be able to do that.”
2nd Long Beach Harbor Patrol Officer (shrugging her shoulders): Oh, well, you’re just going to have to leave. Photography is not allowed here without a permit.”During this altercation both David and I were asked to present identification to the police. They used our IDs to run background checks on both of us.
Hawk has since contacted the media relations department of the Long Beach Harbor Patrol and has received a response from an Art Wong, who assured him he is looking into the matter.
I won’t be holding my breath.
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Fernandez, as I mentioned in a 
This is pretty interesting. I live in Venice and generally take my camera with me everywhere. I did some reading about when and where a permit would be required for photography in LA. From what I understand, anytime a tripod is being used or other equipment that may interfere with public acces/right of way a permit is required. Granted I would consider it a pretty broad stretch that what was going on here (even with a tripod) is what was intended by this statute.
I would have packed up the tripod, found a nice level spot, and continued photographing.
I think one thing that would serve photographers is to actively research the specific laws for the area you will be photographing. This way whenever there is a question or doubt you have a source to refer to. I would even go so far as to ask to see the statute they have to compare. I’m pretty certain the police are required to carry some sort of book containing statutes they reference (and I’m sure you can have a look at too…).
Rick,
(I live in Venice too)
The law in this regard just isn’t that complicated. It’s actually quite simple: if you’re in a public place, not obstructing, and not engaged in commercial activity, you can shoot whatever / whoever the hell you want, whenever the hell you want.
You don’t have to make excuses, feel bad, nor produce your papers or explain your existence to the authorities any more than if you were sitting on a bench writing a poem.
Well, I think the issue with the tripod is that “anything more than just holding a camera” is considered in the professional realm and professional=commercial=permit time, or at least that’s how what I read came across to me. I wish I could cite it. I just see what I read as a loophole allowing them to charge anyone they want with whatever they want regardless of intent.
I’ve had an officer ask me to leave a place one time (in a parking garage in Santa Monica ~3pm) because they were worried about my safety. Apparently they had problems with people being mugged or whatever (at that time of day at 3rd st.. are you kidding me???) I got the shot I wanted and we moved along, but I chortled to myself; “If that cop were doing his job, my safety wouldn’t have to be his concern…”
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the police on this issue, because I believe it’s a very slippery slope. One day we can’t photograph and the next day we won’t be allowed to talk about what we’ve seen.
Very interesting, I was under the impression that if it is in the public domain it was photographable. I cart 2 cameras with me at all times and extra batteries. I photograph what I want, when I want and use it on my sites if I want to. I intend to continue doing that, even if they apply laws against it. Not sure I am crazy about the continuing loss of basic freedoms in this country and the lack of public outcry over it. Must be all those little blue pills so many are popping.
Nope, I hear ya, Rick. Coolly, I’ve never had any issues around here – have had cops walk and drive past me with a tripod set up in some fairly awkward places (bike lanes, rotaries) and never had a word said to me.
I think (overall) in greater LA there’s a much better awareness of photographer’s rights than other cities I’ve spent time in. [Say, San Antonio - want to hear my story - again?
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Laurie – exactly! Rock on.
It is homeland security, not the Long Beach or LA harbor police, who mandate the no photography rule in the ports, altho they are the ones who enforce it. Almost all foreign ports now have strict rules against photography also. With GoogleEarth available to anyone, the whole thing seems really pointless, but it is very hard to get a permit for anythingin LB-LA except specific time and subject delineated projects. It’s still pretty easy to take grab and run shots, but tripods not so much.
The ports aren’t the industrial plants. Long beach is a HUGE freaking city.
even if you are doing “commercial” photography you don’t need a damn permit. If you sell your photographs, that’s commercial. If you have your photographs on a website that is funded by banner ads, that’s COMMERCIAL.
don’t be misled because the cops said something. Don’t assume that just because some long beach cop said so that it’s the law.
I’ve been pulled over in long beach many times, and the cops have always been extremely cool, and i’ve never even so much as gotten a ticket there. So it’s not every cop that’s an a-hole that doesn’t know the laws out there.
Happy New Year!
Actually to clear it up, commercial means advertising as in if you were hired like by volkswagon to take a pic of their car at the port for their AD.
You can take pictures for personal art and even sell them on your site and it’s covered under artistic liscense.
You can use them to promote your work or shows ec.. If your work is art based.
It gets more tricky if you want to want to liscense those shots to an AD campaign, but if you have no recognizable people or logos in the shot then it’s just like stock photos. You don’t know IF someone will ever buy them when your shooting so it’s not commercial.
As far as I know you can shoot anything for yourself to promote your work and it’s not commercial technically, unless the main aim and bulk of your work is AD’s for other companies not artistic purposes. In that case you’ll need the permit anyways since they will want certain angles, lighting maybe a model, it’ll be a big production and you may need the street closed.
The banner fueled thing is more tricky, probably just need the model releases if it’s art based, which covers most all. Even then you prob don’t need the release unless your shooting for another compa y and not yourself.
I need to do more research, but I know real commercial work in the permit sense means lighting since it’s a commercial for the product ,
I’m sure it’s a whole different story for architectural guys hired to shoot a building..
Prob lots of permits.
Ask LBHP what Penal Code Section
do they fall under ? Their not Peace Officers
have no Authority except to Detain for local Law Enforcement ,Why do you think they have Amber Lights No Red/Blue ! They are classified as Public Officers / Security Officers , They are not allowed to Carry Firearms Off Duty , I would
request the Local Ordinance which states that your not allowed to take pictures.
Los Angeles Port Police are Sworn Peace Officers.
another point of view, check this out.
thedistrictweekly.com/print/features/how-theyll-blow-up-the-port-of-long- beach/ – 61k -
You still cannot get within 300 feet of an active refinery however many pictures you manage to take, So I’m not sure what good the pictures would do them that you couldn’t get from google maps.
Let’s think logically for a minute,
Can’t bring a container in from the mainland and set it off, the metal is too thick and they get scanned for explosives.
Since nobody can park anything close enough to detonate, the article is a moot point. I think due to the failsafes above ground and the coast guard and the aircraft patrolling the area so well from radar and sonar, the only real option for attack is a tactical nuke in which case they wouldn’t waste it in the port, but a crowded part of town.
That leaves only 2 options for them,
Inside job involving paying off truckers or container movers, and that might be impossible based on the large distances between loading docks and the refineries.
I think the only option is underground pipun and lines, they would have to pump up the pressure and mix gasses and ignite all of them
At once, one wouldn’t work due to shutdown systems ill bet. Basicaly short of launching missles into the port , it’s next to impossible to blow it up.
The only plausible method would be overtaking
Nevermind that last sentence, forgot to erase it.
After reading your articles it’s pretty clear to see your one of those idiots who goes looking for a confrontation with law enforcement. Do us all a favor and let them do their jobs so you can enjoy the freedom of sleeping in your cozy little bed at night. Don’t like what they do? Then don’t call 911 next time you need help.